4 ms·

>Imagine if the people who work at those companies aren't your enemy. But instead are potential customers and potential collaborators, who see value in your wor

>Imagine if the people who work at those companies aren't your enemy. But instead are potential customers and potential collaborators, who see value in your work and want it to succeed. Yes, but we'd have to imagine it isn't microsoft doing it. You'd think people would learn the dozenth time it happens, but no, here we are again with copilot and VS Studio Code.

josephg 4y ago
Can you be more specific? What, exactly, are you mad about microsoft doing with vscode? Copilot is a whole other beast. I don't think there's any simple answers there.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Probably presenting a code editor with IDE like extensions that are all Open Source, and then gradually killing the Open Source extensions and switching them out for proprietary ones.
  - MonkeyClub 4y ago
    Which is exactly the EEE technique, “patented” by Microsoft: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extingu... If GitHub, VS code, an MS Linux, and perhaps somehow LinkedIn, prove to be a joint front to EEE the F/OSS community, what can I say... Seems somewhat unlikely though, given the number of allowances that must be made for that to hold true.
    - happymellon 4y ago
      Well Github is struggling to not abuse its Free Software users, VS Code has failed to remain Open Source, I'm not sure about LinkedIn because that never pretended to heart Linux so that gets a pass, and MS Linux isn't really a thing. Although if you are to believe the terrible kernel commits they were attempting to make to allow them to do an Nvidia closed source shim then it wouldn't shock me.
LeFantome 4y ago
Visual Studio Code is a massive gift to the community. If we take it in a different direction than Microsoft wants, that would be us doing what you are accusing them of. We can do what we want though. So can they. That’s Open Source! The CoPilot thing is new and troubling.
- bayindirh 4y ago
  > So can they. That’s Open Source! Well, it's a very tiny detail, but VSCode proper is not open source, and you can't built VSCode proper from the available source out there.
  - pxc 4y ago
    It's not a tiny detail. ‘VSCode proper’ includes integration with the extension marketplace that everyone expects to use, as well as exclusive access to proprietary, Microsoft-backed extensions which are widely used throughout the VSCode userbase for essential functionality. Microsoft has arranged things so that actual open-source builds of VSCodium will always be lacking in comparison to their proprietary product.
    - bayindirh 4y ago
      > Microsoft has arranged things so that actual open-source builds of VSCodium will always be lacking in comparison to their proprietary product. Errm, this is also my point, written in a slightly ironic form. This is why I use neither, too.
      - pxc 4y ago
        Oh, my apologies! I'm not tuned properly to pick up irony about that on HN since I've read so many posts overlooking the real difference. Hopefully my comment will be useful as a starting point to someone who hasn't really looked into the issue before.
        bayindirh 4y ago

josephg 4y ago

Can you be more specific? What, exactly, are you mad about microsoft doing with vscode? Copilot is a whole other beast. I don't think there's any simple answers there.

happymellon 4y ago
Probably presenting a code editor with IDE like extensions that are all Open Source, and then gradually killing the Open Source extensions and switching them out for proprietary ones.
- MonkeyClub 4y ago
  Which is exactly the EEE technique, “patented” by Microsoft: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extingu... If GitHub, VS code, an MS Linux, and perhaps somehow LinkedIn, prove to be a joint front to EEE the F/OSS community, what can I say... Seems somewhat unlikely though, given the number of allowances that must be made for that to hold true.
  - happymellon 4y ago
    Well Github is struggling to not abuse its Free Software users, VS Code has failed to remain Open Source, I'm not sure about LinkedIn because that never pretended to heart Linux so that gets a pass, and MS Linux isn't really a thing. Although if you are to believe the terrible kernel commits they were attempting to make to allow them to do an Nvidia closed source shim then it wouldn't shock me.

LeFantome 4y ago

Visual Studio Code is a massive gift to the community. If we take it in a different direction than Microsoft wants, that would be us doing what you are accusing them of. We can do what we want though. So can they. That’s Open Source! The CoPilot thing is new and troubling.

bayindirh 4y ago
> So can they. That’s Open Source! Well, it's a very tiny detail, but VSCode proper is not open source, and you can't built VSCode proper from the available source out there.
- pxc 4y ago
  It's not a tiny detail. ‘VSCode proper’ includes integration with the extension marketplace that everyone expects to use, as well as exclusive access to proprietary, Microsoft-backed extensions which are widely used throughout the VSCode userbase for essential functionality. Microsoft has arranged things so that actual open-source builds of VSCodium will always be lacking in comparison to their proprietary product.
  - bayindirh 4y ago
    > Microsoft has arranged things so that actual open-source builds of VSCodium will always be lacking in comparison to their proprietary product. Errm, this is also my point, written in a slightly ironic form. This is why I use neither, too.
    - pxc 4y ago
      Oh, my apologies! I'm not tuned properly to pick up irony about that on HN since I've read so many posts overlooking the real difference. Hopefully my comment will be useful as a starting point to someone who hasn't really looked into the issue before.
      - bayindirh 4y ago