5 ms·

The physical degradation of the books seems like such a minor effect. I'm pretty gentle with books. As for library ebooks, I had no idea the contracts were stru

by elil17 4y ago

The physical degradation of the books seems like such a minor effect. I'm pretty gentle with books. As for library ebooks, I had no idea the contracts were structured like that.

midoridensha 4y ago
Like with so many physical possessions, it really varies from person to person. Some people have libraries full of books they've read, and all their books are in pristine condition. Look at their other possessions and they're all in excellent condition. Other people, you loan them one paperback book, and when you get it back it looks like it's been dropped off a highway overpass bridge and run over in rush-hour traffic. Look at other possessions that person has, and you'll see the same thing: they're all beat up and pieces of them are broken. Some people are just destructive for some reason, and it's entirely from carelessness, not malice.
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  "Some people are just destructive for some reason, and it's entirely from carelessness, not malice. " And then some people simply consider books as objects for use, and not sacred reliques to be touched only with glothes. (unless we are talking about historical books) I mean, books or rather the information in them is kind of sacred to me. But the physical objects are just paper, that can be printed out again, if it has been in too heavy use. And heavy use includes them to be in a tightly packed backpack, close to saltwater or rain, among other things. If I would treat books as fragile things, I would only read them at home, which means, I would miss out on them a lot, as I like to go outside and travel.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    It sounds like you're one of those people who can't handle everyday objects without breaking them somehow. I'm not talking about treating things as extremely fragile, I'm just referring to being able to use and handle things without somehow destroying them in short order. The people who do this are just like you: they think it's normal and think everyone else is overly cautious, when in reality they're just a clumsy oaf. These are also the kind of people you can't lend tool to, because they'll destroy them, by doing things like using a screwdriver as a pry-bar.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      "by doing things like using a screwdriver as a pry-bar. " Oh, of course I have done this - with an old rusty screwdriver, but not with a tool of precision. But since you are getting personal: well then maybe you are also one of those persons who have everything as looks shiny, but when doing things in the dirt of real life, you would put absent minded a chainsaw or powerdrill on the ground? Which is something I would never do, but have witnessed a few times from the look shiny folks (where the tools get probably polished later). I just treat objects adequately. Printed out paper is printed out paper. A rusty piece of metal, is a rusty piece of metal. And a high precision machine is a high precision machine, where different standards and care apply. edit: in case of misunderstanding: I was not saying above, that I think it is OK, to treat borrowed things badly. Only that I think it is OK to treat my books as objects for rough use.
    - tluyben2 4y ago
      What nonsense. We were talking about physical books here; indeed when I went hiking in de olden days (not that many years ago), I would pack paperbacks in my backpack to read and they would not survive the trip well; it rains, the backback is tightly packed but things rub, it’s moist outside (and if you sleep in hiking huts, also inside) and sometimes things just go wrong. I also like to read in the (hot)tub and water splashes, it’s, again, moist because of steam etc. Oh, sometimes my dogs ate a book that I was reading on the couch and put aside to go for a walk etc. People have dropped teapots or beer or food on books I was reading on pub outside tables. What has this to do with tools? Or other stuff; I have pristine computers from 70s-80s, I have handhelds like the openPandora that I used 10 years daily and look brand new. Almost all (I developed software for old phones and new phones over the last 20 years so I have many of them for testing) my mobile phones I had in my life, working still or not, look new still (the few that don’t have cracked glass). One has nothing at all to do with the other. These days you can get water resistant e-readers and phones, so now the books don’t suffer in these circumstances; if people enjoy the physical more than the elements will still mess iup these books if you don’t read them on a couch at home. Well, the dogs… Also, stop calling people oafs. No need for personal attacks here. There can be many reasons for being clumsy; mental (stress/burnout), neural (Parkinson/stroke/spinal damage), physiological (rheumatism/tendon damage/nerve damage) and substance abuse. And some people are just clumsy; not much they can do about it; oaf means more (in a bad way) than just clumsy.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    Dipping your book in sea water is not normal "heavy use". If you do that to your library book the library will probably make you purchase a new one. Anyways the reason to treat library books reasonably nicely (not with gloves, but like a reasonable person) is not because books are sacred. Its because library books are not yours, they are something you are borrowing from someone else. Treating other people's possesions that you are borrowing with respect is just common courtsey.
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      "If you do that to your library book the library will probably make you purchase a new one." Sure thing, which is why I would not do this with libary or borrowed books in general, but rather buy it cheap second hand, before I take them to the beach with me. "Treating other people's possesions that you are borrowing with respect is just common courtsey." Sure thing. I was refering to the general habit of rough use of books, not that it is nice or acceptable to treat borrowed things badly.
      - bawolff 4y ago
        Fair enough, i probably shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. If its your own book (and not a rare book), by all means do whatever you want with it.
  - klodolph 4y ago
    > (unless we are talking about historical books) You should not touch historical books with gloves. It is generally correct to use your bare hands. The reason why you would wear gloves while handling a book is to protect you, perhaps because the book has been contaminated with hazardous chemicals or something. Anyway. It is also my experience that some people completely destroy their books. I don't know how it happens. I don't think of myself as careful with books. I shove them in backpacks, insert random objects to remember my place, take them outdoors, etc. Yet somehow, the books look much the same afterwards. Part of this is just knowing how to pack books to avoid damaging them. Simple stuff like putting the spine down. If I'm going outside in the rain, keep the book out of the water. If I'm shoving something in my backpack and there's already a book inside, just check to make sure I'm not shoving something directly into the book.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      >It is also my experience that some people completely destroy their books. I don't know how it happens. I don't think of myself as careful with books. I shove them in backpacks, insert random objects to remember my place, take them outdoors, etc. Yet somehow, the books look much the same afterwards. Yep, this is me too, and with everything else I own too. I don't treat them like museum objects, but they generally look very good even after lots of use. Some people just can't do this. Honestly, I don't know why. It's just how they are. Maybe they don't have an intuitive sense of how much force is really needed to handle things, and they use far too much? Much like a small child. I'm not sure. Hence my use of the term in another post, "clumsy oaf". You can see this with some people's cars too. You get in a normal person's car that's a few years old, and it looks fine, though maybe the seating surfaces are obviously not brand-new and it's not perfectly clean. But you get in one of these oaf's cars, and even after a year, it's completely destroyed inside and the interior looks like it's decades old.
      - tluyben2 4y ago
        Stop calling people oafs or ‘small child’. No need for personal attacks here. There can be many reasons for being clumsy; mental (stress/burnout), neural (Parkinson/stroke/spinal damage), physiological (rheumatism/tendon damage/nerve damage) and substance abuse. And some people are just clumsy; not much they can do about it; oaf means more (in a bad way) than just clumsy. Seems people using objects different from how you use them triggers you. Maybe not everyone feels like washing and vacuuming their car every Saturday? Or ever? What’s it to you and how does it make them oafs?

by elil17 4y ago

The physical degradation of the books seems like such a minor effect. I'm pretty gentle with books. As for library ebooks, I had no idea the contracts were structured like that.

midoridensha 4y ago

Like with so many physical possessions, it really varies from person to person. Some people have libraries full of books they've read, and all their books are in pristine condition. Look at their other possessions and they're all in excellent condition. Other people, you loan them one paperback book, and when you get it back it looks like it's been dropped off a highway overpass bridge and run over in rush-hour traffic. Look at other possessions that person has, and you'll see the same thing: they're all beat up and pieces of them are broken. Some people are just destructive for some reason, and it's entirely from carelessness, not malice.

hutzlibu 4y ago
"Some people are just destructive for some reason, and it's entirely from carelessness, not malice. " And then some people simply consider books as objects for use, and not sacred reliques to be touched only with glothes. (unless we are talking about historical books) I mean, books or rather the information in them is kind of sacred to me. But the physical objects are just paper, that can be printed out again, if it has been in too heavy use. And heavy use includes them to be in a tightly packed backpack, close to saltwater or rain, among other things. If I would treat books as fragile things, I would only read them at home, which means, I would miss out on them a lot, as I like to go outside and travel.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  It sounds like you're one of those people who can't handle everyday objects without breaking them somehow. I'm not talking about treating things as extremely fragile, I'm just referring to being able to use and handle things without somehow destroying them in short order. The people who do this are just like you: they think it's normal and think everyone else is overly cautious, when in reality they're just a clumsy oaf. These are also the kind of people you can't lend tool to, because they'll destroy them, by doing things like using a screwdriver as a pry-bar.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "by doing things like using a screwdriver as a pry-bar. " Oh, of course I have done this - with an old rusty screwdriver, but not with a tool of precision. But since you are getting personal: well then maybe you are also one of those persons who have everything as looks shiny, but when doing things in the dirt of real life, you would put absent minded a chainsaw or powerdrill on the ground? Which is something I would never do, but have witnessed a few times from the look shiny folks (where the tools get probably polished later). I just treat objects adequately. Printed out paper is printed out paper. A rusty piece of metal, is a rusty piece of metal. And a high precision machine is a high precision machine, where different standards and care apply. edit: in case of misunderstanding: I was not saying above, that I think it is OK, to treat borrowed things badly. Only that I think it is OK to treat my books as objects for rough use.
  - tluyben2 4y ago
    What nonsense. We were talking about physical books here; indeed when I went hiking in de olden days (not that many years ago), I would pack paperbacks in my backpack to read and they would not survive the trip well; it rains, the backback is tightly packed but things rub, it’s moist outside (and if you sleep in hiking huts, also inside) and sometimes things just go wrong. I also like to read in the (hot)tub and water splashes, it’s, again, moist because of steam etc. Oh, sometimes my dogs ate a book that I was reading on the couch and put aside to go for a walk etc. People have dropped teapots or beer or food on books I was reading on pub outside tables. What has this to do with tools? Or other stuff; I have pristine computers from 70s-80s, I have handhelds like the openPandora that I used 10 years daily and look brand new. Almost all (I developed software for old phones and new phones over the last 20 years so I have many of them for testing) my mobile phones I had in my life, working still or not, look new still (the few that don’t have cracked glass). One has nothing at all to do with the other. These days you can get water resistant e-readers and phones, so now the books don’t suffer in these circumstances; if people enjoy the physical more than the elements will still mess iup these books if you don’t read them on a couch at home. Well, the dogs… Also, stop calling people oafs. No need for personal attacks here. There can be many reasons for being clumsy; mental (stress/burnout), neural (Parkinson/stroke/spinal damage), physiological (rheumatism/tendon damage/nerve damage) and substance abuse. And some people are just clumsy; not much they can do about it; oaf means more (in a bad way) than just clumsy.
- bawolff 4y ago
  Dipping your book in sea water is not normal "heavy use". If you do that to your library book the library will probably make you purchase a new one. Anyways the reason to treat library books reasonably nicely (not with gloves, but like a reasonable person) is not because books are sacred. Its because library books are not yours, they are something you are borrowing from someone else. Treating other people's possesions that you are borrowing with respect is just common courtsey.
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    "If you do that to your library book the library will probably make you purchase a new one." Sure thing, which is why I would not do this with libary or borrowed books in general, but rather buy it cheap second hand, before I take them to the beach with me. "Treating other people's possesions that you are borrowing with respect is just common courtsey." Sure thing. I was refering to the general habit of rough use of books, not that it is nice or acceptable to treat borrowed things badly.
    - bawolff 4y ago
      Fair enough, i probably shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. If its your own book (and not a rare book), by all means do whatever you want with it.
- klodolph 4y ago
  > (unless we are talking about historical books) You should not touch historical books with gloves. It is generally correct to use your bare hands. The reason why you would wear gloves while handling a book is to protect you, perhaps because the book has been contaminated with hazardous chemicals or something. Anyway. It is also my experience that some people completely destroy their books. I don't know how it happens. I don't think of myself as careful with books. I shove them in backpacks, insert random objects to remember my place, take them outdoors, etc. Yet somehow, the books look much the same afterwards. Part of this is just knowing how to pack books to avoid damaging them. Simple stuff like putting the spine down. If I'm going outside in the rain, keep the book out of the water. If I'm shoving something in my backpack and there's already a book inside, just check to make sure I'm not shoving something directly into the book.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >It is also my experience that some people completely destroy their books. I don't know how it happens. I don't think of myself as careful with books. I shove them in backpacks, insert random objects to remember my place, take them outdoors, etc. Yet somehow, the books look much the same afterwards. Yep, this is me too, and with everything else I own too. I don't treat them like museum objects, but they generally look very good even after lots of use. Some people just can't do this. Honestly, I don't know why. It's just how they are. Maybe they don't have an intuitive sense of how much force is really needed to handle things, and they use far too much? Much like a small child. I'm not sure. Hence my use of the term in another post, "clumsy oaf". You can see this with some people's cars too. You get in a normal person's car that's a few years old, and it looks fine, though maybe the seating surfaces are obviously not brand-new and it's not perfectly clean. But you get in one of these oaf's cars, and even after a year, it's completely destroyed inside and the interior looks like it's decades old.
    - tluyben2 4y ago
      Stop calling people oafs or ‘small child’. No need for personal attacks here. There can be many reasons for being clumsy; mental (stress/burnout), neural (Parkinson/stroke/spinal damage), physiological (rheumatism/tendon damage/nerve damage) and substance abuse. And some people are just clumsy; not much they can do about it; oaf means more (in a bad way) than just clumsy. Seems people using objects different from how you use them triggers you. Maybe not everyone feels like washing and vacuuming their car every Saturday? Or ever? What’s it to you and how does it make them oafs?