5 ms·

I love how this piece is really evidence free opinion. First he waxes on about spiraling tuition costs, and blames "too many" admins as weighing the higher educ

I love how this piece is really evidence free opinion. First he waxes on about spiraling tuition costs, and blames "too many" admins as weighing the higher education down. Does he break out comparisons to an earlier era with data? No, it's just a handwave of "back in my day" and some Rand Paul-esque "I don't know what these people do, but they are obviously not needed". Here's a radical idea: How about asking the students, you know, the ones PAYING the tuition, what they think? No no, too logical, better to campaign on "firing 9 / 10 and reducing tuition". There isn't even a bit of the article where he talks about how much the average student spends on all of this "waste" as he claims it. I mean, there might be massive waste and he might be right. But as written, this article has zero evidence, and I would say as the author is a lawyer you think that evidence would be an important facet of your argument.

Ferrotin 4y ago
It would be useful for the reader, but the numbers and comparisons exist and do back the author up.
- cloudsec9 4y ago
  If the data shows that, why not include it in the article, rather than hand waving with "back in my day"?
impossiblefork 4y ago
Here in Sweden university education cost the government less per head and year than high school education (72000 SEK/a for university whereas high school costs 124 300 SEK/a). If you look at really good universities, like say, the Independent University of Moscow, it's just a bunch of mathematicians holding lectures and giving really difficult exams, so whether the author has support for his view, it's probably correct. University should be very cheap.
- cloudsec9 4y ago
  > just a bunch of mathematicians holding lectures Unless they are doing this on a streetcorner, they'll need SOME admin support. And, you know, to be paid. Small stuff like that. I'm not trying to argue that higher-ed might not be bloated -- I'm saying the author isn't connecting the dots. They are doing "things" _he_ doesn't like, so they should stop doing THAT! Except, it should be the consumers (ie students) who should have a say. But why herd cats and build consensus when you can proclaim and get on a board where you can dictate what services people should not get.
  - impossiblefork 4y ago
    The way the Independent University of Moscow did this is that the lectures are open to anyone who will hear, and if you pass three exams then you get to start building a degree. If you can't pass three exams I assume the IUM thinks it's not right for you, and if you do, then you have a decent chance of absorbing the stuff they want to teach. I don't think they have any administrators at all. Instead, they're just a bunch of research mathematicians who will train people who can make use of training. Of course, universities for more normal people would have to accommodate less capable people, who can't manage their studies in the way that proper university education requires, so some administrators and the like may be necessary, but it should be one person at the desk answering questions, not some kind of army.

Ferrotin 4y ago

It would be useful for the reader, but the numbers and comparisons exist and do back the author up.

cloudsec9 4y ago
If the data shows that, why not include it in the article, rather than hand waving with "back in my day"?

impossiblefork 4y ago

Here in Sweden university education cost the government less per head and year than high school education (72000 SEK/a for university whereas high school costs 124 300 SEK/a). If you look at really good universities, like say, the Independent University of Moscow, it's just a bunch of mathematicians holding lectures and giving really difficult exams, so whether the author has support for his view, it's probably correct. University should be very cheap.

cloudsec9 4y ago
> just a bunch of mathematicians holding lectures Unless they are doing this on a streetcorner, they'll need SOME admin support. And, you know, to be paid. Small stuff like that. I'm not trying to argue that higher-ed might not be bloated -- I'm saying the author isn't connecting the dots. They are doing "things" _he_ doesn't like, so they should stop doing THAT! Except, it should be the consumers (ie students) who should have a say. But why herd cats and build consensus when you can proclaim and get on a board where you can dictate what services people should not get.
- impossiblefork 4y ago
  The way the Independent University of Moscow did this is that the lectures are open to anyone who will hear, and if you pass three exams then you get to start building a degree. If you can't pass three exams I assume the IUM thinks it's not right for you, and if you do, then you have a decent chance of absorbing the stuff they want to teach. I don't think they have any administrators at all. Instead, they're just a bunch of research mathematicians who will train people who can make use of training. Of course, universities for more normal people would have to accommodate less capable people, who can't manage their studies in the way that proper university education requires, so some administrators and the like may be necessary, but it should be one person at the desk answering questions, not some kind of army.