4 ms·

Why would anyone have a problem with it? They are simply agents in the free market of ideas. Markets can't function without a diversity of competing suppliers a

Why would anyone have a problem with it? They are simply agents in the free market of ideas. Markets can't function without a diversity of competing suppliers and propagandists supply what's demanded. Likewise, if truth is important to enough people, more truthful news outlets will spring up.

thatguy0900 4y ago
This doesn't really make sense, a person cannot be an expert in very many things, and cannot tell the difference between propoganda and the truth. You are no different, the only people who could catogorize the truthful outlets from the propoganda outlets on more than a handful of subjects are the ones directing the propoganda.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  If that's true, then all markets are broken. I would have to be an expert on food, cars, housing, clothing, education, &c to not be bamboozled.
  - thatguy0900 4y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law Those markets used to be broken. They are often still broken until the law catches up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal Turns out if a market isnt well regulated scammers will absolutely run amok. Look at any posting about Amazon here and how much of the comments are just saying it is just fraudulent garbage. When a expert actually does look at something, that's often what they find https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 The big difference is that it's not illegal to spout whatever propoganda you want, and more than that, it sometimes even has government backing and I can't refute you. If you sell me a fucked up car it's obvious to me after a while, if you lie to me about what's going on in say, Ukraine politics, how can I know you are lying to me? I've barely even heard of the place before the war happened. I just have to take your word on why it's important we need to send these guys billions of aid as opposed to all the other countries currently being invaded.
CptFribble 4y ago
This assumes an equitable distribution of purchasing power among market participants, so the only barrier to truth-dominant news is whether a majority of market participants demand it. Unfortunately this is not reality. There are many reasons why statements that are untruthful, or at least tangential to the truth like rage-bait, are paid to be distributed. Sometimes domestic political parties seek to spread misinformation because it will drive their core voters to the polls, or convert on-the-fence voters to their side. Sometimes nation-state actors seek to spread misinformation to cause chaos and disrupt national unity. Maybe an industrial lobby is seeking to obfuscate or misinform about products and their benefits (see the sugar industry's public campaigns for 'low-fat' foods packed with sugar as beneficial to your health). In all three of these examples, the parties supplying the information have vastly more resources to spend on spreading the information than anyone does to combat it, even if it is a net-negative on society, because there is money to be made or power to be had. Business interests can sustain their propaganda as long as they are making money, possibly indefinitely. National political parties can sustain their propaganda as long as there are major interests that benefit from the party's actions, typically also indefinitely. And we all know the kind of resources a nation-state can deploy.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  I can't help but think you're simply describing marketing. If marketing distorts markets then I can't help but think we have bigger problems at hand.
  - bediger4000 4y ago
    By jove, you may be on to something!
WarOnPrivacy 4y ago
> propagandists supply what's demanded. Ask each person on the receiving end of propaganda if they are seeking to be lied to. The number that say yes is the amount of demand.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  There is a difference between stated preference and revealed preference in the marketplace of ideas. Anyone who has worked in WTP estimation very clearly knows the difference and danger in confusing the two.
- canjobear 4y ago
  No, their true desire is reflected in their revealed preferences, ie how often they return to information sources that they know have lied before.
LocalH 4y ago
The free market favors wealthy influence over grassroots discourse. Everything always centers around money and power imbalance.

thatguy0900 4y ago

This doesn't really make sense, a person cannot be an expert in very many things, and cannot tell the difference between propoganda and the truth. You are no different, the only people who could catogorize the truthful outlets from the propoganda outlets on more than a handful of subjects are the ones directing the propoganda.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
If that's true, then all markets are broken. I would have to be an expert on food, cars, housing, clothing, education, &c to not be bamboozled.
- thatguy0900 4y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law Those markets used to be broken. They are often still broken until the law catches up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_horse_meat_scandal Turns out if a market isnt well regulated scammers will absolutely run amok. Look at any posting about Amazon here and how much of the comments are just saying it is just fraudulent garbage. When a expert actually does look at something, that's often what they find https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10508494 The big difference is that it's not illegal to spout whatever propoganda you want, and more than that, it sometimes even has government backing and I can't refute you. If you sell me a fucked up car it's obvious to me after a while, if you lie to me about what's going on in say, Ukraine politics, how can I know you are lying to me? I've barely even heard of the place before the war happened. I just have to take your word on why it's important we need to send these guys billions of aid as opposed to all the other countries currently being invaded.

CptFribble 4y ago

This assumes an equitable distribution of purchasing power among market participants, so the only barrier to truth-dominant news is whether a majority of market participants demand it. Unfortunately this is not reality. There are many reasons why statements that are untruthful, or at least tangential to the truth like rage-bait, are paid to be distributed. Sometimes domestic political parties seek to spread misinformation because it will drive their core voters to the polls, or convert on-the-fence voters to their side. Sometimes nation-state actors seek to spread misinformation to cause chaos and disrupt national unity. Maybe an industrial lobby is seeking to obfuscate or misinform about products and their benefits (see the sugar industry's public campaigns for 'low-fat' foods packed with sugar as beneficial to your health). In all three of these examples, the parties supplying the information have vastly more resources to spend on spreading the information than anyone does to combat it, even if it is a net-negative on society, because there is money to be made or power to be had. Business interests can sustain their propaganda as long as they are making money, possibly indefinitely. National political parties can sustain their propaganda as long as there are major interests that benefit from the party's actions, typically also indefinitely. And we all know the kind of resources a nation-state can deploy.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
I can't help but think you're simply describing marketing. If marketing distorts markets then I can't help but think we have bigger problems at hand.
- bediger4000 4y ago
  By jove, you may be on to something!

WarOnPrivacy 4y ago

> propagandists supply what's demanded. Ask each person on the receiving end of propaganda if they are seeking to be lied to. The number that say yes is the amount of demand.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
There is a difference between stated preference and revealed preference in the marketplace of ideas. Anyone who has worked in WTP estimation very clearly knows the difference and danger in confusing the two.
canjobear 4y ago
No, their true desire is reflected in their revealed preferences, ie how often they return to information sources that they know have lied before.

LocalH 4y ago

The free market favors wealthy influence over grassroots discourse. Everything always centers around money and power imbalance.