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I suspected this some time ago when I tried to learn more about all the potential problems related to gut bacteria. When you ingest something that you can't di

I suspected this some time ago when I tried to learn more about all the potential problems related to gut bacteria. When you ingest something that you can't digest directly, there is a good chance that some bacteria in your guy can. And when they do, they multiply, this process is often faster than most people realize. The problem rarely are the bacteria themselves, but the byproducts of their own metabolism, that can be benign is trace quantities and harmful in larger quantities. The immune system also constantly monitors and reacts to those byproducts and bacteria population. What we usually call Lactose intolerance or Gluten sensitivity is in practice an indirect effect of some species of bacteria digesting those, and then the reaction of your immune system. Overall, the gut microbiome is a fascinating and complex subject, unfortunately often oversimplified or misunderstood. As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow", the flow increase is because the fibers are digested by bacteria and the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything. Same with Sorbitol (contained in dried prunes and often used as a soft laxative) but even more toxic.

ephbit 4y ago
> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow", the flow increase is because the fibers are digested by bacteria and the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything. Very interesting. Can you maybe refer to some text(s) about this phenomenon of mild toxicity from digestion of fibers?
wrycoder 4y ago
The flow increases because the bulk increases with more fiber. Most fiber is cellulose, and your gut biome can't process that, as far as I know.
atombender 4y ago
> the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything Do you have any more information on this "mild toxicity"? That does not sound like a healthy reaction to me. My understanding was health experts encourage insoluble fiber more than anything, precisely because it is essentially inert — not digestable or fermented by microflora — and therefore merely adds bulk to the waste, which helps move stuff through the gut. Are you talking about soluble fiber and prebiotics?
boplicity 4y ago
> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow", the flow increase is because the fibers are digested by bacteria and the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything. This isn't an accurate portrayal of the benefits of fiber. The laxative effects of fiber are just one of many benefits. For example, Fiber can bind to saturated fats, disabling the negative affects of them. Specifically, in terms of bacteria, many bacteria digest fiber, which in turn creates short chain fatty acids, which have many health benefits. You're right about one thing, though: this is indeed a complex subject.
- dilap 4y ago
  I belive the viewpoint that many hold that constipation is usually caused by a lack of fiber is often mistaken, and indeed eating a no or low fiber diet can resolve constipation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15654804/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15654804/
astro_robot 4y ago
Would this analysis also extend to drinks like Kombucha which add more gut bacteria to your body?
- gunshai 4y ago
  Maybe this is lazy commenting, but do we actually have any evidence that the bacteria in kombucha even makes it to your gut biome?
  - benj111 4y ago
    I've seen probiotic yogurts advertising the claim. (Scientifically proven). So there must be some truth. I haven't delved in further though.
kloch 4y ago
> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow" About 10 years ago I switched overnight from a very meat heavy diet to mostly plant based (I still eat dairy products and one or two servings of fish per week). Within a week I was shocked at how well my digestive tract was suddenly working. Before that I had no idea how broken it was. All other factors aside, I could never go back to the slow, uncomfortable digesting process of a typical USA meat heavy diet.
- MacsHeadroom 4y ago
  As long as we're sharing anecdotes; about 10 years ago I quit being vegan and transitioned into a carnivore diet. I now eat mostly red meats and my gut has never worked better. When I was vegan I had constant GI issues to the point of multiple hospitalizations. Everyone is different.
  - valenaut 4y ago
    Just to finish off this Goldilocks story: I've been vegan for four years, and previously ate a meat and dairy heavy diet. I noticed basically no change to my gut health--it has been pretty good, with occasional minor issues, for my whole life.
    - ericmcer 4y ago
      This is the one for me. Keto, Vegan, Whatever specialty diet I try results in elevated energy and mood for a week or so and then a return to baseline. (Except with keto where I usually have no energy after a few weeks).
      - buu700 4y ago
        Anecdotally, I'm far healthier and more energetic than I was before starting keto a decade ago. I recommend everyone to give it a serious look. Granted, I can't entirely separate the effects of ketosis in and of itself from an overall cleaner diet with more vegetables and fewer processed foods. It's possible that the same diet with butter swapped out for quinoa would have yielded a similar result. As far as sweeteners, my go-to is liquid stevia, which I use about 1/5 a cup of daily. When I need a solid sweetener (e.g. for baking), I use inulin fiber sweetened with stevia and monk fruit, which creates a nicer texture than actual sugar IMO. I also have allulose on hand for specific use cases (e.g. caramelizing), but I can't really stomach it in large quantities. I don't particularly like or recommend sugar alcohols for any purpose, but erythritol is the the least bad of the bunch.
Invictus0 4y ago
> What we usually call Lactose intolerance or Gluten sensitivity is in practice an indirect effect of some species of bacteria digesting those, and then the reaction of your immune system. Citation?
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  This is pretty well understood and documented. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lactose-intolerance/causes/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lactose-intolerance/causes/ "Bacteria in the colon break down the lactose, producing fatty acids and gases like carbon dioxide, hydrogen and methane. The breakdown of the lactose in the colon, and the resulting acids and gases that are produced, cause the symptoms of lactose intolerance, such as flatulence and bloating."
  - stephc_int13 4y ago
    The tricky part is that there are multiple species of bacteria able to digest (ferment) lactose, and the composition of your microbiota is highly variable at the individual level and also over time. In practice, your reaction to lactose is difficult to predict, regardless of your production of lactase.
  - Invictus0 4y ago
    Right. I guess I had misunderstood the comment as implying that lactose intolerance was not a result of insufficient lactase production.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    That’s the non controversial part. The bit that seems off is that there is an immune response.
hombre_fatal 4y ago
If you’re going to share something as fringe as 1) the benefit of fiber is that it makes us poop (disregarding it’s other benefits) and 2) it does so because it’s toxic, you’re going to have to at least share links.

ephbit 4y ago

> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow", the flow increase is because the fibers are digested by bacteria and the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything. Very interesting. Can you maybe refer to some text(s) about this phenomenon of mild toxicity from digestion of fibers?

wrycoder 4y ago

The flow increases because the bulk increases with more fiber. Most fiber is cellulose, and your gut biome can't process that, as far as I know.

atombender 4y ago

> the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything Do you have any more information on this "mild toxicity"? That does not sound like a healthy reaction to me. My understanding was health experts encourage insoluble fiber more than anything, precisely because it is essentially inert — not digestable or fermented by microflora — and therefore merely adds bulk to the waste, which helps move stuff through the gut. Are you talking about soluble fiber and prebiotics?

boplicity 4y ago

> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow", the flow increase is because the fibers are digested by bacteria and the mild toxicity of the process forces the digestive system to flush everything. This isn't an accurate portrayal of the benefits of fiber. The laxative effects of fiber are just one of many benefits. For example, Fiber can bind to saturated fats, disabling the negative affects of them. Specifically, in terms of bacteria, many bacteria digest fiber, which in turn creates short chain fatty acids, which have many health benefits. You're right about one thing, though: this is indeed a complex subject.

dilap 4y ago
I belive the viewpoint that many hold that constipation is usually caused by a lack of fiber is often mistaken, and indeed eating a no or low fiber diet can resolve constipation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15654804/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15654804/

astro_robot 4y ago

Would this analysis also extend to drinks like Kombucha which add more gut bacteria to your body?

gunshai 4y ago
Maybe this is lazy commenting, but do we actually have any evidence that the bacteria in kombucha even makes it to your gut biome?
- benj111 4y ago
  I've seen probiotic yogurts advertising the claim. (Scientifically proven). So there must be some truth. I haven't delved in further though.

kloch 4y ago

> As an example, we've often been told to eat more fibers to increase "flow" About 10 years ago I switched overnight from a very meat heavy diet to mostly plant based (I still eat dairy products and one or two servings of fish per week). Within a week I was shocked at how well my digestive tract was suddenly working. Before that I had no idea how broken it was. All other factors aside, I could never go back to the slow, uncomfortable digesting process of a typical USA meat heavy diet.

MacsHeadroom 4y ago
As long as we're sharing anecdotes; about 10 years ago I quit being vegan and transitioned into a carnivore diet. I now eat mostly red meats and my gut has never worked better. When I was vegan I had constant GI issues to the point of multiple hospitalizations. Everyone is different.
- valenaut 4y ago
  Just to finish off this Goldilocks story: I've been vegan for four years, and previously ate a meat and dairy heavy diet. I noticed basically no change to my gut health--it has been pretty good, with occasional minor issues, for my whole life.
  - ericmcer 4y ago
    This is the one for me. Keto, Vegan, Whatever specialty diet I try results in elevated energy and mood for a week or so and then a return to baseline. (Except with keto where I usually have no energy after a few weeks).
    - buu700 4y ago
      Anecdotally, I'm far healthier and more energetic than I was before starting keto a decade ago. I recommend everyone to give it a serious look. Granted, I can't entirely separate the effects of ketosis in and of itself from an overall cleaner diet with more vegetables and fewer processed foods. It's possible that the same diet with butter swapped out for quinoa would have yielded a similar result. As far as sweeteners, my go-to is liquid stevia, which I use about 1/5 a cup of daily. When I need a solid sweetener (e.g. for baking), I use inulin fiber sweetened with stevia and monk fruit, which creates a nicer texture than actual sugar IMO. I also have allulose on hand for specific use cases (e.g. caramelizing), but I can't really stomach it in large quantities. I don't particularly like or recommend sugar alcohols for any purpose, but erythritol is the the least bad of the bunch.

Invictus0 4y ago

> What we usually call Lactose intolerance or Gluten sensitivity is in practice an indirect effect of some species of bacteria digesting those, and then the reaction of your immune system. Citation?

stephc_int13 4y ago
This is pretty well understood and documented. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lactose-intolerance/causes/ https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/lactose-intolerance/causes/ "Bacteria in the colon break down the lactose, producing fatty acids and gases like carbon dioxide, hydrogen and methane. The breakdown of the lactose in the colon, and the resulting acids and gases that are produced, cause the symptoms of lactose intolerance, such as flatulence and bloating."
- stephc_int13 4y ago
  The tricky part is that there are multiple species of bacteria able to digest (ferment) lactose, and the composition of your microbiota is highly variable at the individual level and also over time. In practice, your reaction to lactose is difficult to predict, regardless of your production of lactase.
- Invictus0 4y ago
  Right. I guess I had misunderstood the comment as implying that lactose intolerance was not a result of insufficient lactase production.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  That’s the non controversial part. The bit that seems off is that there is an immune response.

hombre_fatal 4y ago

If you’re going to share something as fringe as 1) the benefit of fiber is that it makes us poop (disregarding it’s other benefits) and 2) it does so because it’s toxic, you’re going to have to at least share links.