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Moxies always been fairly dictatorial about Signal. no third party clients, no decentralization. im not surprised to see a DMCA at all. So far Signal is a ce
by nimbius 4y ago
Moxies always been fairly dictatorial about Signal. no third party clients, no decentralization. im not surprised to see a DMCA at all.
So far Signal is a centralized encrypted messaging app that includes its own cryptocurrency and wallet no one asked for, shills me for donations every other release, and begs me to invite new users despite deprecating regular SMS message support.
if youre a threat-actor the most malevolent thing you could do at this point is just watch Moxie and the team drive this project into the ground.
- dheera 4y ago> no third party clients Isn't their client open source? If I compiled it myself, is that a third party client? If they don't let me compile it myself, how can I trust their official version is using the source they published?
- alias_neo 4y agoYou can build their client and use it yourself, but they don't want you to distribute it and they don't want you using their infra and API from a third party client.
- maccam94 4y agoThey don't want people distributing unofficial builds that claim to be Signal due to the risk of supply chain attacks against users.
- 411111111111111 4y agoI thought moxie moved on from Signal? Is he still in the loop?
- cyberphobe 4y agoThe anti-signal crowd loves to blame moxie for everything. Just part of their overall commitment to being fact-free
- berkes 4y agoMoxie was fairly controversial in his stance on several issues. That's not "fact-free".
- cyberphobe 4y agoMoxie is no longer involved in Signal. Blaming him for things Signal does now is pretty free of fact
- dijit 4y agoOther than that he set things up to be that way. He’s not blameless for the fact it’s not federated, for example. Even if he’s not involved anymore.
- palata 4y agoFederating is hard, and Signal is trying hard to solve the metadata problem in a fundamentally different way (which I happen to believe is better). I see you want federation, that's fine. I want private metadata. Don't use Signal if it doesn't do what you want, but maybe try to accept that not every project should do what you want. They have their preferences too.
- kodah 4y agoHonestly not what I expected to hear about Moxie. Any more tales that back this up? If this line of behavior is true then I think it's time to move on.
- rch 4y agoYeah, I regret ever mentioning the project to people.
- hammycheesy 4y agoReading this thread is what convinced me to switch away from Signal and investigate Matrix: https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issuecomment-217211165 https://github.com/LibreSignal/LibreSignal/issues/37#issueco...
- kodah 4y agoThanks, this was illuminating. Ironically, from his website: > In general, I hope to contribute to a world where we value skills and relationships over careers and money, where we know better than to trust cops or politicians, and where we're passionate about building and creating things in a self-motivated and self-directed way.
- esaym 4y agoCurious what all you had to do to switch from Signal to Matrix.
- capitalsigma 4y agoI was ready to grab my pitchfork after that first comment, but farther down: >>Some time ago you federated with CyanogenMod. What has changed since then? >What changed was going through that experience. It seriously degraded the UX for our users and held us back in the development process at many times. I'd estimate that all told, we lost about 6 months to a year of progress. It's something we'll probably never do again, and has fully convinced me that federated protocols are a thing of the past in this world of ours. That's a pretty reasonable take: we tried it and it hurt velocity too much.
- kybernetyk 4y agoWait? Really? I've been out of the loop regarding Signal. But "crypto punk/anarchist" Moxie Marlinspike is using DMCA takedowns and doesn't like decentralization and 3rd party clients? I'm flabbergasted.
- palata 4y agoMoxie is not at Signal anymore.
- bogota 4y agoThis doesn’t change the fact that signal is the best option for my grandma to use still. Moxie is no longer active in signal afaik. This is the new leadership.
- the_mitsuhiko 4y ago> This doesn’t change the fact that signal is the best option for my grandma to use still. Is it? How do you measure that? It seems like WhatsApp is a better default choice for most people probably.
- spdl 4y agoExcept it's owned by Meta, who I really wouldn't trust even if they say it's E2EE.
- dijit 4y agoTo be honest I don’t see a strong reason to trust signal either except better marketing. There are so many scandals that come to mind, like not updating the FOSS code for years. I’m no fan of Meta, and they have incentive to hoover up data. But I don’t have a good reason to trust signal other than that everyone on hackernews seems to love them.
- yummypaint 4y agoLook at how signal vs meta make their money. Meta's entire business model is built around directly violating people's privacy, and conspiring with other businesses to violate people's privacy. Meta is a publicly traded company. Signal is a 501c3, it's a completely different kind of organization.
- dijit 4y agoI already said that meta has an incentive to snarf up your data. There is credibility to the notion that signal is designed to ensure that people who are paranoid would prefer it. The fact that it exists and is convenient prevents more secure messengers from existing as the lions share simply goes to signal, and this is what I mean by marketing. It is conventional wisdom that signal is the bees knees and looking further or scrutinising it is folly. A lot of funding comes from the government to signal too; and since it’s an American company it must comply to the best of its ability with US law. They tell us that they can only comply in small ways, but given that there is no independent verification of the server (that it even runs the FOSS code) and the hostility in having unofficial clients on the network I am left pondering.
- RektBoy 4y agoAlso HQ in US, rofl.