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Not GP but I'm a Signal user and here are my gripes: - No easy way to do and restore backups on Android and impossible to do backups on their PC client - Does

Not GP but I'm a Signal user and here are my gripes: - No easy way to do and restore backups on Android and impossible to do backups on their PC client - Does not support Android tablets at all (my mom loves hers) - Fails to ring on Android when you call someone or someone calls you, later serving you a missed call notification (disabled Doze/battery optimization feature on Android and tested on 3 different phones with no cigar) - No way to share your live location to friends - Using its built in photo snapping and sharing function takes horrible pictures on Android (I suspect they're using the wrong API). If I want to send someone I'm currently texting a good looking picture I need to switch to my phone's camera APP, then back to the chat and use the photo upload function, instead of the in-app photo snapping and sharing function Some of these bugs have been reported 3+ years ago, while these things work flawlessly on WhatsApp since nearly forever, meanwhile Signal is busy implementing crypto payment features. I don't know about iOS, but at least for Android and PC, it still feels like an app in alpha that's not yet released to the public compared to how polished and feature rich WhatsApp and Telegram are.

gort19 4y ago
The only one of these that is a ‘bug’ is the failure to ring on android. The rest are all feature requests. That said, it’s interesting to see what people think are basic requirement for a messaging app these days.
- thrtythreeforty 4y ago
  If you want to be reductionist, everything is a feature. But if an app is missing something so basic as to impact usability, I might consider it a bug. It's a matter of opinion where the line is, of course. Uncontroversial example: a calculator app that doesn't have a divide key. Technically, yes, it's a separate feature from the multiply key, but it's so basic, so expected, that its absence is a bug. From the above list, I consider "No easy way to do and restore backups on Android and impossible to do backups on their PC client" a bug, or at least a frustrating omission by design.
- happymellon 4y ago
  Taking poor pictures, if it is due to using the wrong API is also a bug.
- baq 4y ago
  The camera thing is definitely a bug, on iOS there are issues, too (eg doesn’t rotate pictures from landscape to portrait correctly).
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >The rest are all feature requests. More like missing basic features. I never said all are bugs, I said some are bugs and that all these things exist and work on the other alternatives like WhatsApp or Telegram
  - gort19 4y ago
    Ok, but that means your criteria for a basic messenger app is something that does everything that all the other messaging apps do.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      No, that's not just my criteria, but Signal's own, when they entered the market as an alternatives to WhatsApp. If you climb in the ring with Ali, then you'd better be able to box. And it's also the criteria of millions of other users who have not switched to Signal because of the bugs, quirks, and lack of basic features for a modern messaging app. Just being able to send encrypted ASCII characters to someone is not enough to make a good messaging app these days.
      - gort19 4y ago
        No, they are your personal criteria. Your “gripes” as you said. > And it's also the criteria of millions of other users who have not switched to Signal because of the bugs, quirks, and lack of basic features for a modern messaging app. You have absolutely no knowledge that this is why people haven’t switched, indeed it’s highly unlikely that it would have been as successful as it has if this were the case. People move to Signal because they distrust Facebook and telegram. The more logical explanation is simply network effects and inertia. Occam’s razor.
londons_explore 4y ago
> takes horrible pictures on Android This is mostly Androids fault... For me, even Whatsapp's built in camera is terrible. When you press the button to take a photo, it starts focussing, then takes a photo before the focussing is done. So every photo taken is reliably blurry. There isn't any way to take a non-blurry photo with the main (back) camera. The main OS camera app works fine. I think they have per-device logic for this sort of thing, and mine is an uncommon chinaphone, so presumably they haven't tuned the logic for it.
seized 4y ago
Backups work fine on my Android phone. They consistently go to a folder and Syncthing backs them up from there. Also no problems with it not ringing, Signal is actually the primary way that my family calls each other now and no one has experienced it not ringing when expected. The rest I admittedly dont use or arent impacted by. While its not perfect in all ways, I disagree with the "alpha" quality sentiment. Especially when you are comparing it to apps that dont have the same security goals or standards.
- thot_experiment 4y ago
  I thought it was something I did that causes it to not ring. Glad it's not just me that has the issue. I generally agree with gp, it's not a bad app but certainly not one id ever use if I could contact someone another way. I find the lack of interpretability with my computer especially annoying. I'm constantly left feeling like a second class citizen. Especially when it comes to seeing my history, I linked the accounts ages ago, I barely use my phone yet I'm consistently losing messages on my pc As for the "security" I'm pretty sure it doesn't have reproducible builds, so it's basically just "trust me bro". rather trust moxie than zuck but still don't really trust either.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >Backups work fine on my Android phone. They consistently go to a folder and Syncthing backs them up from there. I never said backups don't work, I said they're not easy to do and restore compared to other apps where it's much more seamless and hands-off. No average user knows what Syncthing is and how to set it up. People expect the messaging app to have its own backup-restore system compatible with the cloud storage provider setup in the phone's OS. >Also no problems with it not ringing, Signal is actually the primary way that my family calls each other now and no one has experienced it not ringing when expected. Can't concur, I've personally seen this issue across 3 different android phones form 3 different brands and there are countless people online complaining about the same issue. You were lucky. >Especially when you are comparing it to apps that dont have the same security goals or standards. Which security goals and standards exactly? Signal's sales pitch is that it's end-to-end encrypted, but so does WhatsApp, and until we have an independent security audit of all of Signal's code and infrastructure, the claim for "better" security goals is as valid as "trust me bro". The only thing going for it is that it's not owned by Zuck's advertising empire or owned by Russian/CCP tech magnates, and that's it, but that's a very low bar to clear. And also, how does having "better" security goals impact the issues with picture quality the app takes or the app failing to ring when someone calls you? "Security" is not an excuse for major bugs and lack of basic features. If security is done right then it should work transparently for the bytes going down the internet pipe and not have an impact on any other features.
Zak 4y ago
Looking at the source code, they're using the newer Camera2 API. I have no expertise in implementing said API, and a quick comparison between Signal's code and that of Open Camera suggests the Signal developers don't have a whole lot more. It also has some questionable decisions in it like cropping to close to the screen's aspect ratio rather than using the native aspect ratio of the sensor. I never want that behavior.

gort19 4y ago

The only one of these that is a ‘bug’ is the failure to ring on android. The rest are all feature requests. That said, it’s interesting to see what people think are basic requirement for a messaging app these days.

thrtythreeforty 4y ago
If you want to be reductionist, everything is a feature. But if an app is missing something so basic as to impact usability, I might consider it a bug. It's a matter of opinion where the line is, of course. Uncontroversial example: a calculator app that doesn't have a divide key. Technically, yes, it's a separate feature from the multiply key, but it's so basic, so expected, that its absence is a bug. From the above list, I consider "No easy way to do and restore backups on Android and impossible to do backups on their PC client" a bug, or at least a frustrating omission by design.
happymellon 4y ago
Taking poor pictures, if it is due to using the wrong API is also a bug.
baq 4y ago
The camera thing is definitely a bug, on iOS there are issues, too (eg doesn’t rotate pictures from landscape to portrait correctly).
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>The rest are all feature requests. More like missing basic features. I never said all are bugs, I said some are bugs and that all these things exist and work on the other alternatives like WhatsApp or Telegram
- gort19 4y ago
  Ok, but that means your criteria for a basic messenger app is something that does everything that all the other messaging apps do.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    No, that's not just my criteria, but Signal's own, when they entered the market as an alternatives to WhatsApp. If you climb in the ring with Ali, then you'd better be able to box. And it's also the criteria of millions of other users who have not switched to Signal because of the bugs, quirks, and lack of basic features for a modern messaging app. Just being able to send encrypted ASCII characters to someone is not enough to make a good messaging app these days.
    - gort19 4y ago
      No, they are your personal criteria. Your “gripes” as you said. > And it's also the criteria of millions of other users who have not switched to Signal because of the bugs, quirks, and lack of basic features for a modern messaging app. You have absolutely no knowledge that this is why people haven’t switched, indeed it’s highly unlikely that it would have been as successful as it has if this were the case. People move to Signal because they distrust Facebook and telegram. The more logical explanation is simply network effects and inertia. Occam’s razor.

londons_explore 4y ago

> takes horrible pictures on Android This is mostly Androids fault... For me, even Whatsapp's built in camera is terrible. When you press the button to take a photo, it starts focussing, then takes a photo before the focussing is done. So every photo taken is reliably blurry. There isn't any way to take a non-blurry photo with the main (back) camera. The main OS camera app works fine. I think they have per-device logic for this sort of thing, and mine is an uncommon chinaphone, so presumably they haven't tuned the logic for it.

seized 4y ago

Backups work fine on my Android phone. They consistently go to a folder and Syncthing backs them up from there. Also no problems with it not ringing, Signal is actually the primary way that my family calls each other now and no one has experienced it not ringing when expected. The rest I admittedly dont use or arent impacted by. While its not perfect in all ways, I disagree with the "alpha" quality sentiment. Especially when you are comparing it to apps that dont have the same security goals or standards.

thot_experiment 4y ago
I thought it was something I did that causes it to not ring. Glad it's not just me that has the issue. I generally agree with gp, it's not a bad app but certainly not one id ever use if I could contact someone another way. I find the lack of interpretability with my computer especially annoying. I'm constantly left feeling like a second class citizen. Especially when it comes to seeing my history, I linked the accounts ages ago, I barely use my phone yet I'm consistently losing messages on my pc As for the "security" I'm pretty sure it doesn't have reproducible builds, so it's basically just "trust me bro". rather trust moxie than zuck but still don't really trust either.
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>Backups work fine on my Android phone. They consistently go to a folder and Syncthing backs them up from there. I never said backups don't work, I said they're not easy to do and restore compared to other apps where it's much more seamless and hands-off. No average user knows what Syncthing is and how to set it up. People expect the messaging app to have its own backup-restore system compatible with the cloud storage provider setup in the phone's OS. >Also no problems with it not ringing, Signal is actually the primary way that my family calls each other now and no one has experienced it not ringing when expected. Can't concur, I've personally seen this issue across 3 different android phones form 3 different brands and there are countless people online complaining about the same issue. You were lucky. >Especially when you are comparing it to apps that dont have the same security goals or standards. Which security goals and standards exactly? Signal's sales pitch is that it's end-to-end encrypted, but so does WhatsApp, and until we have an independent security audit of all of Signal's code and infrastructure, the claim for "better" security goals is as valid as "trust me bro". The only thing going for it is that it's not owned by Zuck's advertising empire or owned by Russian/CCP tech magnates, and that's it, but that's a very low bar to clear. And also, how does having "better" security goals impact the issues with picture quality the app takes or the app failing to ring when someone calls you? "Security" is not an excuse for major bugs and lack of basic features. If security is done right then it should work transparently for the bytes going down the internet pipe and not have an impact on any other features.

Zak 4y ago

Looking at the source code, they're using the newer Camera2 API. I have no expertise in implementing said API, and a quick comparison between Signal's code and that of Open Camera suggests the Signal developers don't have a whole lot more. It also has some questionable decisions in it like cropping to close to the screen's aspect ratio rather than using the native aspect ratio of the sensor. I never want that behavior.