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I could be wrong, but I think people get irked by shallow virtue signaling, especially when it's combined with superficial thoughts-and-prayers type of aid/advi

I could be wrong, but I think people get irked by shallow virtue signaling, especially when it's combined with superficial thoughts-and-prayers type of aid/advice, more than the the choice of political issues. Although, I suppose recent political issues that everyone's already talking about, and a project tries to "raise awareness" reeks of a misguided virtue signaling PR stunt than when one talks about long-standing issues. Not saying this is the case here, though, as Rust is hardly something that needs PR. I'm sure part of the reaction is that Twitter is full of this type of virtue signaling, and people have become allergic to it. I remember the whole "Yeah, this little master->main change will be a tectonic shift. Back pats all around! We did it people; we solved racism!" attitude that Twitter had during the main/master debate lol. Yes, make changes in what is probably the most progressive industry (since we nerds are generally more tolerant/progressive), like that's gonna make a difference in the morally decrepit police force, which the protests were about to begin with. Anyway... I'm not sure what the word is, but I feel it's a next door neighbour to hypocrisy? And hypocrites annoying everyone. Personally though, I think it's always good to talk about human rights or mental health issues! I'm not sure a paragraph everyone will skip is an adequate place for that, but it's a nice token effort, and it's somewhat commendable someone cared enough to put it in. Anyway, this is all a bit incoherent, but I don't care enough to wordsmith the comment, only to share some of my opinions.

deleted 4y ago
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chowells 4y ago
Perhaps it isn't virtue signaling? What if... they actually care, like a human being would?
- spoiler 4y ago
  Ok, I belive they do on some superficial level. I mean, people virtue signal about things they care, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. If they actually cared, why not try and do something meaningful about it[1]? When I cared about issues, I put effort into trying to change things a even on a meager/local scale. As a teen I volunteered at a library to teach children how to behave online. Later I helped refurbish a homelessness shelter in my home town. I've taught programming at an LGBT community centre. Maybe I've done these for selfish reasons because they are things that personally affected my own past/development, and doing them made me feel good and significant. These are all small things, but at least I hope I've made a difference to a small number of people. So, in my books a tweet or a driveby paragraph in release notes doesn't really make a difference. Tell me, how did GitHub help make black people feel more comfortable on the streets of America? How did these release notes help people's rights in Iran? [1]: Also, to be fair, I don't know who put that paragraph in. Maybe they did do meaningfully contribute (i.e. by setting up VPN networks or something), and maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh. But in my limited experience, the people who preach the loudest do the least, but also herald of their preaches and coat themselves with efforts of others. Sadly
  - chowells 4y ago
    No, people do not "virtue signal" about things they care about. Perhaps they used to in the past, but language has moved on. The phrase is now understood to carry with it an accusation of insincerity. Therefore virtue signaling and actually caring are contradictory. This is how language works. Usage is meaning. A change in usage is a change in meaning. Language doesn't care about your opinions on the matter, it simply is. The phrase "virtue signaling" now carries with it an accusation of insincerity. If you don't mean to level such an accusation, you're going to need to find a way to communicate what you do mean that isn't encumbered by connotations that have recently become standard.
    - spoiler 4y ago
      Right. I'll take your word for it. Then I'm not sure what to call what they do, but how does it help?
      - aussiesnack 4y ago
        Expressions of solidarity with the powerless can help them weather the storm: they buoy hope, they increase perceptions of connection and of agency. I have witnessed this repeatedly over decades, including at first hand in this very specific instance. If everyone kept quiet about everything they could not immediately, materially, "fix", the world would be a far more desolate place for many. I guess there's no particular obligation for you to care, but would it actually be such a privation for you to stoically weather your indignation about others doing so?
        spoiler 4y ago
        > Expressions of solidarity with the powerless can help them weather the storm: they buoy hope, they increase perceptions of connection and of agency I agree that solidarity can help. But none of that's going on here... This pathetic attempt at shallow expression isn't going to reach the people who need it (or probably anyone in Iran for that matter, due to the Internet situation there). > I guess there's no particular obligation for you to care, but would it actually be such a privation for you to stoically weather your indignation about others doing so? This is degenerating into gaslighting and you trying to put words into my mouth, so I will let the thread rest. I guess I'm happy to agree to disagree on the effectiveness of online virtue signaling[1]. I'm not even judging these people that hard, I think. I'm just describing the response their shallow behaviour elicits in other people. I don't even get such a strong response myself, I just think it's worthless [1] To avoid confusion I mean "pathetically shallow attempts at trying to make a difference to improve their colleagues perception of their (shallow) morals"; with malicious intent or without, the action is the same. But that concludes me playing online word/semantic lawyer

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

chowells 4y ago

Perhaps it isn't virtue signaling? What if... they actually care, like a human being would?

spoiler 4y ago
Ok, I belive they do on some superficial level. I mean, people virtue signal about things they care, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it. If they actually cared, why not try and do something meaningful about it[1]? When I cared about issues, I put effort into trying to change things a even on a meager/local scale. As a teen I volunteered at a library to teach children how to behave online. Later I helped refurbish a homelessness shelter in my home town. I've taught programming at an LGBT community centre. Maybe I've done these for selfish reasons because they are things that personally affected my own past/development, and doing them made me feel good and significant. These are all small things, but at least I hope I've made a difference to a small number of people. So, in my books a tweet or a driveby paragraph in release notes doesn't really make a difference. Tell me, how did GitHub help make black people feel more comfortable on the streets of America? How did these release notes help people's rights in Iran? [1]: Also, to be fair, I don't know who put that paragraph in. Maybe they did do meaningfully contribute (i.e. by setting up VPN networks or something), and maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh. But in my limited experience, the people who preach the loudest do the least, but also herald of their preaches and coat themselves with efforts of others. Sadly
- chowells 4y ago
  No, people do not "virtue signal" about things they care about. Perhaps they used to in the past, but language has moved on. The phrase is now understood to carry with it an accusation of insincerity. Therefore virtue signaling and actually caring are contradictory. This is how language works. Usage is meaning. A change in usage is a change in meaning. Language doesn't care about your opinions on the matter, it simply is. The phrase "virtue signaling" now carries with it an accusation of insincerity. If you don't mean to level such an accusation, you're going to need to find a way to communicate what you do mean that isn't encumbered by connotations that have recently become standard.
  - spoiler 4y ago
    Right. I'll take your word for it. Then I'm not sure what to call what they do, but how does it help?
    - aussiesnack 4y ago
      Expressions of solidarity with the powerless can help them weather the storm: they buoy hope, they increase perceptions of connection and of agency. I have witnessed this repeatedly over decades, including at first hand in this very specific instance. If everyone kept quiet about everything they could not immediately, materially, "fix", the world would be a far more desolate place for many. I guess there's no particular obligation for you to care, but would it actually be such a privation for you to stoically weather your indignation about others doing so?
      - spoiler 4y ago
        > Expressions of solidarity with the powerless can help them weather the storm: they buoy hope, they increase perceptions of connection and of agency I agree that solidarity can help. But none of that's going on here... This pathetic attempt at shallow expression isn't going to reach the people who need it (or probably anyone in Iran for that matter, due to the Internet situation there). > I guess there's no particular obligation for you to care, but would it actually be such a privation for you to stoically weather your indignation about others doing so? This is degenerating into gaslighting and you trying to put words into my mouth, so I will let the thread rest. I guess I'm happy to agree to disagree on the effectiveness of online virtue signaling[1]. I'm not even judging these people that hard, I think. I'm just describing the response their shallow behaviour elicits in other people. I don't even get such a strong response myself, I just think it's worthless [1] To avoid confusion I mean "pathetically shallow attempts at trying to make a difference to improve their colleagues perception of their (shallow) morals"; with malicious intent or without, the action is the same. But that concludes me playing online word/semantic lawyer