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I'm not sure if you meant for this particular interpretation or not, but the way you invoke "walled garden" makes it sound a lot like you are targeting iOS spec

I'm not sure if you meant for this particular interpretation or not, but the way you invoke "walled garden" makes it sound a lot like you are targeting iOS specifically. This couldn't be further from the truth. Based on my own reading. Carrier IQ is installed on many Android-based phones, including those from AT&T, Sprint and T-Mobile networks. Apple, HTC and Samsung have all confirmed that Carrier IQ is on their phones. HOWEVER, Apple has also announced that it has stopped supporting CIQ as of iOS 5, and will completely scrub the software from later releases. So no, this has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not your phone exists in a closed ecosystem. The problem is that companies are incentivized to get away with as much of this kind of information collection as it possibly can. And just because I have to jailbreak my iPhone if I want to install unvetted software, doesn't mean Apple is thumbing their noses at legitimate customer complaints and concerns.

redrobot5050 15y ago
Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user will enable it by accident -- and will probably only do so upon the instruction of an Apple Store Support Rep.
- lallysingh 15y ago
  There's no way to send a remote message to enable it?
  - redrobot5050 15y ago
    Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with more success now. Oh, and you do know that everything you SEND through a cellular network -- texts, pics, urls visited are logged, right? The only way to have a private network is to own the network. And know your netsec.
    - lukeschlather 15y ago
      >However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. Really? When a phone is off, it's off, I don't believe the FBI can make a phone that has been hard powered off come up and start recording. The hardware just isn't capable of doing anything when it's hard powered off (evidenced by the fact that most phones need a signal to establish what time it is when you power them on.)
      - rdtsc 15y ago
        So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.
        lukeschlather 15y ago
        When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.
        rdtsc 15y ago
        Again, how do you know the phone is powered off unless you have a flip switch connected to the battery, take the battery out (and at the same time assume there is other smaller battery in there) ?
    - bediger 15y ago
      Said wiretaps have been used against the Olympic Committee: googling "Athens Affair" yields a nice story, http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair There are rumors of the FBI's "Carnivore" (A.K.A. "DCS-3000" and "DCS-6000" getting used the same way in the USA.
    - 15y ago
kstenerud 15y ago
I'm invoking "walled garden", speaking of closed, controlled hardware environments in general, whether that be Apple or phone carriers or laptop manufacturers or the like. Once the controllers of that environment gain power, the human tendency to abuse and extend that power is only a matter of time. The only way to ensure that you can trust the hardware and software you use is if it is 100% transparent. And while that is not always possible, the ability to control what runs on your own hardware goes a long way towards mitigating the risk of a betrayed trust.

redrobot5050 15y ago

Carrier IQ is in iOS 5. It is, however, disabled by default. It is also buried in the second or third level down in Preferences, so its very unlikely a user will enable it by accident -- and will probably only do so upon the instruction of an Apple Store Support Rep.

lallysingh 15y ago
There's no way to send a remote message to enable it?
- redrobot5050 15y ago
  Unknown. However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. That's old news. Said wiretaps have actually been used against organized crime in America in the past and is likely used with more success now. Oh, and you do know that everything you SEND through a cellular network -- texts, pics, urls visited are logged, right? The only way to have a private network is to own the network. And know your netsec.
  - lukeschlather 15y ago
    >However, the FBI can send a remote message to ANY phone to turn on its microphone and essentially use it as a wiretap. That's been built into every phone in the USA for something like 10 years now. It's why you have to surrender a cell phone in secure locations and military bases. Really? When a phone is off, it's off, I don't believe the FBI can make a phone that has been hard powered off come up and start recording. The hardware just isn't capable of doing anything when it's hard powered off (evidenced by the fact that most phones need a signal to establish what time it is when you power them on.)
    - rdtsc 15y ago
      So how many cell phones do you know that a powered off with a hard switch. You know, flip the switch like you do on your living room light. Or how many people do you know that take their battery out when the power their phone off. Well there is your answer.
      - lukeschlather 15y ago
        When the phone is powered off it is physically incapable of receiving a wake-up request over the radio.
        rdtsc 15y ago
        Again, how do you know the phone is powered off unless you have a flip switch connected to the battery, take the battery out (and at the same time assume there is other smaller battery in there) ?
  - bediger 15y ago
    Said wiretaps have been used against the Olympic Committee: googling "Athens Affair" yields a nice story, http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/the-athens-affair There are rumors of the FBI's "Carnivore" (A.K.A. "DCS-3000" and "DCS-6000" getting used the same way in the USA.
  - 15y ago

kstenerud 15y ago

I'm invoking "walled garden", speaking of closed, controlled hardware environments in general, whether that be Apple or phone carriers or laptop manufacturers or the like. Once the controllers of that environment gain power, the human tendency to abuse and extend that power is only a matter of time. The only way to ensure that you can trust the hardware and software you use is if it is 100% transparent. And while that is not always possible, the ability to control what runs on your own hardware goes a long way towards mitigating the risk of a betrayed trust.