4 ms·

What more do you want? They are paying out millions in cash ("out of the goodness in their heart"... ie they don't have to and people shouldnt expect) which is

What more do you want? They are paying out millions in cash ("out of the goodness in their heart"... ie they don't have to and people shouldnt expect) which is directly reducing the value of the equity, which impacts them more than anyone else by a huge proportion. Handing out equity grants makes no little sense to me and is unlikely what these employees want... "hey you're fired, here's some stock at our latest valuation pre correction".

eganist 4y ago
I don't want anything; I have no intention of working for stripe. But in the face of fundraising headwinds, a decision to cut costs like this only improves (or stabilizes anyway) their ability to raise at a valuation closer to what they're looking for in this down market. The severance package here only deferred the benefit to the bottom line, but it wasn't a consequence for over-hiring and potentially disrupting lives. In other words, the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly, and it ends up becoming a perverse incentive to over-hire and lay off again with the next boom/bust. Successful accountability means people actually avoid doing shitty things.
- ProAm 4y ago
  > the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly, and it ends up becoming a perverse incentive to over-hire and lay off again with the next boom/bust. Successful accountability means people actually avoid doing shitty things. This is exactly how business works. You should not be surprised. Their job is to ensure the company survives and that is really it. Everyone is expendable. None of these employees were guaranteed a long leisurely employment at Stripe. Businesses change overnight. But it's always a cyclical market. As the founders I would expect them to benefit themselves. There doesn't have to be consequences, only change and adaptation. It's just business, they aren't your family.
  - lefstathiou 4y ago
    To add to this, the lack of commitment is reciprocal. Employees can walk out the door any second... Stripe pulled these hundreds of employees from somewhere (I doubt they were all college grads). It's just business on both sides.
- seneca 4y ago
  > The severance package here only deferred the benefit to the bottom line, but it wasn't a consequence for over-hiring and potentially disrupting lives. In other words, the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly... This is all complete nonsense. They're handing out millions of dollars they have no obligation to pay. Unlike cheap talk on the internet, this actually costs them quite a lot. This is extremely generous.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- throwaway9191aa 4y ago
  For the sake of argument, let's just assume that all of this is true and they are acting in self interest and everyone is horrible all the time. I would still take the deal. I would work there if they hired me. If there are enough people like me to continue the business, then this thing turns out to not be shitty. Only time will tell.
- mbesto 4y ago
  So what should they avoided doing? Hiring those people in the first place..?
bumby 4y ago
I think the issue comes from the idea that in tough times, good leaders take their lumps before they expect it from their team. There's lots of colloquialisms that seem to fit this: "Leaders eat last" "We cut the fat starting at the top" "Leaders need to have endurance beyond their troops" I have no skin in the game either. The severance packages are commendable, but I don't think it actually answers the OP's question about accountability. I don't want to speak for the other commenter, but I think what they're looking for is some indication that the leadership has personally sacrificed something equal to or exceeding what they expected out of their subordinates. Giving out millions in severance, while commendable, isn't a personal sacrifice.
- scarface74 4y ago
  The company is not a charity. I expect no more from a company than to pay me for every hour I work. I can leave anytime I want and they can let me go anytime that the relationship is not mutually beneficial. I keep a go to hell fund, an updated resume, an updated career document, a strong network of former coworkers, managers, and external recruiters and make sure my skillset is in line with the market.
  - bumby 4y ago
    But I'm assuming you expect management to be good leaders, no? I don't think "for profit" and "good leadership" are mutually exclusive.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      I expect nothing from managers. When the pay/bullshit ratio starts going in the wrong direction, I have just as much agency to leave as they do to let me go.
      - bumby 4y ago
        >I expect nothing from managers. You don't expect them to pay you? Treat you with respect? To observe labor laws? Surely, you expect something from them. Being willing and able to walk away is not the same thing as saying you have zero expectations.
oceanplexian 4y ago
It's not out of the goodness of their heart. Stripe has to retain its existing employees and still attract talent, and the economic situation we're experiencing is only temporary. If they screw people over as they are leaving, they are shooting themselves in the foot.
hinkley 4y ago
No, the shareholders and the board are paying that out. It’s still dodging the original question. It’s something a lot of us are sensitized to these days because of all the narcissists who “take full responsibility” which seems to mean to them that taking the blame is a dire punishment and no other consequences are necessary. Being the scapegoat is not a real consequence. Not getting that villa you were talking to an agent about is a consequence. Not getting your bonus at all is a consequence.

eganist 4y ago

I don't want anything; I have no intention of working for stripe. But in the face of fundraising headwinds, a decision to cut costs like this only improves (or stabilizes anyway) their ability to raise at a valuation closer to what they're looking for in this down market. The severance package here only deferred the benefit to the bottom line, but it wasn't a consequence for over-hiring and potentially disrupting lives. In other words, the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly, and it ends up becoming a perverse incentive to over-hire and lay off again with the next boom/bust. Successful accountability means people actually avoid doing shitty things.

ProAm 4y ago
> the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly, and it ends up becoming a perverse incentive to over-hire and lay off again with the next boom/bust. Successful accountability means people actually avoid doing shitty things. This is exactly how business works. You should not be surprised. Their job is to ensure the company survives and that is really it. Everyone is expendable. None of these employees were guaranteed a long leisurely employment at Stripe. Businesses change overnight. But it's always a cyclical market. As the founders I would expect them to benefit themselves. There doesn't have to be consequences, only change and adaptation. It's just business, they aren't your family.
- lefstathiou 4y ago
  To add to this, the lack of commitment is reciprocal. Employees can walk out the door any second... Stripe pulled these hundreds of employees from somewhere (I doubt they were all college grads). It's just business on both sides.
seneca 4y ago
> The severance package here only deferred the benefit to the bottom line, but it wasn't a consequence for over-hiring and potentially disrupting lives. In other words, the layoffs actually benefit the founders directly... This is all complete nonsense. They're handing out millions of dollars they have no obligation to pay. Unlike cheap talk on the internet, this actually costs them quite a lot. This is extremely generous.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
throwaway9191aa 4y ago
For the sake of argument, let's just assume that all of this is true and they are acting in self interest and everyone is horrible all the time. I would still take the deal. I would work there if they hired me. If there are enough people like me to continue the business, then this thing turns out to not be shitty. Only time will tell.
mbesto 4y ago
So what should they avoided doing? Hiring those people in the first place..?

bumby 4y ago

I think the issue comes from the idea that in tough times, good leaders take their lumps before they expect it from their team. There's lots of colloquialisms that seem to fit this: "Leaders eat last" "We cut the fat starting at the top" "Leaders need to have endurance beyond their troops" I have no skin in the game either. The severance packages are commendable, but I don't think it actually answers the OP's question about accountability. I don't want to speak for the other commenter, but I think what they're looking for is some indication that the leadership has personally sacrificed something equal to or exceeding what they expected out of their subordinates. Giving out millions in severance, while commendable, isn't a personal sacrifice.

scarface74 4y ago
The company is not a charity. I expect no more from a company than to pay me for every hour I work. I can leave anytime I want and they can let me go anytime that the relationship is not mutually beneficial. I keep a go to hell fund, an updated resume, an updated career document, a strong network of former coworkers, managers, and external recruiters and make sure my skillset is in line with the market.
- bumby 4y ago
  But I'm assuming you expect management to be good leaders, no? I don't think "for profit" and "good leadership" are mutually exclusive.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    I expect nothing from managers. When the pay/bullshit ratio starts going in the wrong direction, I have just as much agency to leave as they do to let me go.
    - bumby 4y ago
      >I expect nothing from managers. You don't expect them to pay you? Treat you with respect? To observe labor laws? Surely, you expect something from them. Being willing and able to walk away is not the same thing as saying you have zero expectations.

oceanplexian 4y ago

It's not out of the goodness of their heart. Stripe has to retain its existing employees and still attract talent, and the economic situation we're experiencing is only temporary. If they screw people over as they are leaving, they are shooting themselves in the foot.

hinkley 4y ago

No, the shareholders and the board are paying that out. It’s still dodging the original question. It’s something a lot of us are sensitized to these days because of all the narcissists who “take full responsibility” which seems to mean to them that taking the blame is a dire punishment and no other consequences are necessary. Being the scapegoat is not a real consequence. Not getting that villa you were talking to an agent about is a consequence. Not getting your bonus at all is a consequence.