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I wonder sometimes how can people reconcile buying a new X every Y and still be concerned about human rights and the environment, etc.
by aliqot 4y ago
I wonder sometimes how can people reconcile buying a new X every Y and still be concerned about human rights and the environment, etc.
- benj111 4y agoHuman rights? That's kind of a tenuous link at best. You could make the case that buying more increases the opportunities for those at the bottom. I'm not even necessarily making a factual statement here, but personally I don't feel that there's anything to reconcile.
- bunderbunder 4y agoA lot of raw materials that go into modern electronics are produced using slave labor, and the “recycled” devices tend to end up poisoning the environments of people in similarly disadvantaged communities. I don’t know enough about these things to know whether buying more or less of these devices directly helps enslaved people, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to observe that rampant consumerism does fuel the postcolonial economic machine that perpetrates that kind of exploitation. And I think that those of us who stand to benefit the most from this system would do well to be extremely cautious about how we are incentivized toward motivated reasoning.
- toolz 4y agoIt's also important to recognize consumerism has driven a lot of innovation which has benefited humanity. I venture to say one of the most impactful advancements in human history is providing access to the internet in almost every spot on the globe. That was influenced at least in part by so many people owning smart phones. A sufficiently technologically advanced human species might be the only thing capable of stopping the next extinction event. Something that will almost certainly occur naturally without any intervention.
- x86x87 4y agoHmm. A sufficiently technologically advanced human species may greatly accelerate the arrival of the next extinction event.
- toolz 4y agoSure, but another extinction event without humans is more or less inevitable - with humans it may be preventable. So our choices appear to be wait for the bad thing to happen or continue to drive each other to improve and learn, which consumerism does in fact provide great motive and drive for humans to improve (although not the only mechanism, I'm sure, just a large one we understand today). Hopefully we strike the right balance and solve these problems.
- bunderbunder 4y agoI always worry a little when something is both the purported solution to and the primary cause of a problem.
- jasonlotito 4y ago> A lot of raw materials that go into modern electronics are produced using slave labor, Can you confirm this for Apple products? I couldn't find anything recent.
- benj111 4y agoOk. Well there's 2 elements here, the factual and emotional. Factually you could argue either way. I suppose broadly you could say that industrialisation is bad for those at the bottom in the short term. But after the hump things get better. Is that pain reasonable? Is it avoidable? Are we morally obligated to avoid it? Are all somewhat open questions. The GP used the word 'reconcile' which to me is a more emotional metric. Personally I don't make the link (rightly or wrongly) between me buying X and person Y suffering. So personally I don't have anything to reconcile. That is a correct answer. It isn't the answer, but as an answer to the GP, it is legitimate. I can also see it being a reasonable answer to say that in buying Congolese cobalt you are helping the country industrialise, which in the long term is a good thing. Again you may disagree with the reasoning or morality but it seems to me a legitimate way of reconciliation.
- automatic6131 4y agoYou tell yourself you're allowing someone else to enjoy (nth-)last years X and Y at a lower price point, being subsidised by your use first. Everyone can reconcile almost anything, practically humanity's superpower. It's rare the person that fails to - on any issue. I think we all do it all the time for most issues.
- tppiotrowski 4y ago"So convenient a thing to be a reasonable creature, since it enables one to find or make a reason for every thing one has a mind to do." -Benjamin Franklin
- coffeeblack 4y agoBoth is to raise your social status among your “friends”.
- jasonlotito 4y agoI wonder sometimes how can people reconcile buying a new X ever and still be concerned about human rights and the environment, etc.
- rootusrootus 4y agoI expect that most people buy what they want and human rights and the environment are just something they discuss online.
- smolder 4y agoProbably true, though to different degrees for different folks. I've always taken joy in holding out for the right component upgrades for my PC and related gear to get the best bang for the buck and biggest leaps in performance. It's a lineage that's been going since 2000 or so, where at least one part always gets carried forward, and the rest is gifted or sold at steep discount. It started as me trying to get the most from my limited money, but decades later it's more about minimizing the guilt of frivolous e-waste. My last phone of 5 years sadly got the boot from my carrier, forcing an upgrade. I know I've seen other people take pride in their slow/picky upgrades, too.
- x86x87 4y agoSometime this also happens in person. Also being shamed for everything you do as bad for the environment or bad for human right does not work.
- irrational 4y agoHow do you know any of them even are actually concerned about those issues and don't just give lip service (if even that)?
- scarface74 4y agoSo by only buying a new X every zY you’re somehow showing more concern about human rights?
- biftek 4y agoBecause it's not an individuals buying decisions harming those things? Those are the result of governments and corporations. I'm not going to buy a new phone today and it sounds like you probably won't either, I'll check back in tomorrow and see how the environment is doing!
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]