5 ms·

Hm.. I wonder how many people will switch back to TextMate 2 from Vim/Emacs/Sublime Text?

by brcrth 15y ago

mgrouchy 15y ago
I imagine all three are superior to TM2, especially Vim and Emacs, after you bust through the learning curve no point ever going back.
- rachet 15y ago
  Last I heard, TM2 was being targeted for Lion - two operating systems ago. Five years is a long time.
  - huxley 15y ago
    Little typo there, TM2 was targeting Leopard.
- rayiner 15y ago
  <- Emacs user (for years) who is looking to switch back to TM at least for some things. Can't live anymore without a modern non-fidgety GUI or basic necessities like Lion fullscreen support. Programming on a laptop dramatically changes the cost/benefit of keyboard-heavy interfaces, IMHO. E.g. it's almost as quick for me to flick the cursor to switch tabs as it is to type a chorded keyboard shortcut to switch buffers, especially factoring in the ability to look and think about what buffer I want before initiating any movement.
  - tikhonj 15y ago
    On the other hand, the buffer system scales up to much larger amounts of buffers really easily, which I find very useful. Also, on KDE at least, Emacs has both a very nice GUI and fullscreen support. Finally, I am now using a 13" laptop, and using the keyboard is still more efficient despite the really nice touchpad my new computer has.
  - __david__ 15y ago
    > E.g. it's almost as quick for me to flick the cursor to switch tabs as it is to type a chorded keyboard shortcut to switch buffers, especially factoring in the ability to look and think about what buffer I want before initiating any movement. Hah. Try doing that when you have 782 open buffers. :-) Also, Emacs doesn't have real Lion full screen support, but try "M-x set-variable RET ns-auto-hide-menu-bar RET t RET" which comes close.
    - rayiner 15y ago
      > Also, Emacs doesn't have real Lion full screen support, but try "M-x set-variable RET ns-auto-hide-menu-bar RET t RET" which comes close. It doesn't come close at all. It takes over the primary desktop which results in very weird behavior with the Dock. Which is, ultimately, the thing that drives me up the wall about Emacs. It doesn't behave like an OS X app, and the token GUI support is fiddly and jarring (lack of smooth scrolling, etc). Now that other editors are upping the ante in terms of scriptability (Sublime Text has an awesome Python API, too bad its closed-source), the reasons to stick with Emacs are rapidly decreasing for me.
      - __david__ 15y ago
        > It takes over the primary desktop which results in very weird behavior with the Dock. Not sure what you mean. It's pre-Lion style full-screen, not weird at all. It just hides the menu and the dock. I'm not sure I agree that Emacs's GUI support is "token" but I would admit to it not being the emphasis of the program. I give them a lot of credit for having a Mac port in the main codebase and keeping 3 or 4 disparate GUIs in sync with each other. Scrolling with the trackpad is crazy fast by default, I had to slow it down with the "mouse-wheel-scroll-amount" customization (I only did this after multiple years because it doesn't matter that much in the end--I realized that if I'm using the mouse in Emacs I'm generally doing something wrong). Smooth scrolling is anathema to Emacs which doesn't even let you resize the window in sub font-height increments. I don't think that decision is necessarily correct but I think it probably comes from Emacs's heritage as a terminal program. I think smooth scrolling could be nice. I do have to say that in the long run C-v, M-v, and C-s end up being way faster and more accurate than 2 finger scrolling. A funny aside, I did one of the first (if not the first) port of Emacs to OS X back in the Mac OS X Beta days and someone sent me an email saying the menubar was blank--there were no menus in the program. The funny part was I had released it and had been using it as my main text editor for weeks and I never even noticed. :-)
  - grundprinzip 15y ago
    Aquamacs has fullscreen support and for homebrew there are a few patches out that will enable fullscreen for vanilla emacs.
ashleyw 15y ago
After playing with TM2 for half an hour or so, I don't think I'll be switching back from Vim. I was hoping for some split-screen action and maybe some advanced autocomplete intergration, but it doesn't seem to have either. It's looking to be a great update and improves on a lot of things in the existing version, but if I were honest, I'd have to say I wouldn't bother upgrading if it wasn't free. That said, it's obviously an alpha release, so who knows what the future will hold.
- brcrth 15y ago
  I don't have a license so I don't saw the alpha but it's seems frustrating that in 5 years of "development" so little was added. But, OTOH, it's not the final version.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    """But, OTOH, it's not the final version.""" That doesn't change much. Either it will be released soon, so not much will be added in the final version, or we wait for more stuff to be added before it's released in another 2-5 years, making it totally pointless as of now. (And given that it's not like the previous 5 years were well spent, we already know how this will go...)
    - bigfudge 15y ago
      Except that if the guts are there to add features quickly, it could have been time well spent. We just don't know yet, but progress over the next month should be indicative (see progress on ST2 as an example of a seemingly healthy codebase in this regard)
- pealco 15y ago
  What sorts of things does it improve?
  - ashleyw 15y ago
    Release Notes: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/tm2_release_notes.html http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/tm2_release_notes... Major changes include the new project drawer (though, I prefer ProjectPlus[1]), and the new bundle/theme updater[2], where you just tick the box and it auto-installs. - [1] http://ciaranwal.sh/2008/08/05/textmate-plug-in-projectplus http://ciaranwal.sh/2008/08/05/textmate-plug-in-projectplus [2] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/1hgh.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/1hgh.png
equalarrow 15y ago
Ha, funny. I just switched back to Emacs this past week after a 5 year hiatus. Thank god for muscle memory..
neutronicus 15y ago
This emacs user won't. I've gotten too used to org-mode, SLIME, M-x shell, and a host of other things I'm pretty sure textmate doesn't do.
- tikhonj 15y ago
  You should add Tramp to your list--I don't think textmate has anything like it and it's extremely useful. You can open a remote file or shell as easily as opening the same locally; my coworkers don't even notice that I'm editing files remotely!
  - wahnfrieden 15y ago
    Vim has this too (netrw) though it's not nearly as nice (as is typically the case.)
  - sunchild 15y ago
    TM2 seems to have a similar function. Haven't tried installing on the server side though. Edit: Here it is... http://erniemiller.org/2011/12/12/textmate-2-rmate-awesome/ http://erniemiller.org/2011/12/12/textmate-2-rmate-awesome/
    - tikhonj 15y ago
      That seems similar. However, for Emacs, you don't have to install anything on the remote computer--it uses scp by default, I think. It also supports different protocols; for example, you can use it to edit files, browse directories or run shells with sudo.
jaxn 15y ago
I gave up and went with Sublime when I bought a new machine a couple of months ago. I won't be switching to TM2
Derbasti 15y ago
Funny though, how many people got hooked on Textmate and moved on to Emacs or Vim in the last few years. I certainly did. After tasting Emacs or Vim, there is no going back. I wonder whether we would have stayed if Textmate had been updated earlier. I also wonder whether this new spring in text editors might be in part a reaction to Textmates hibernation. Maybe if it had been updated earlier, there would be no Sublime Text, no Kod, no Chocolat and no Vico?
kellishaver 15y ago
I like Sublime Text, I paid for it, and it's cross-platform. No going back for me.
scelerat 15y ago
I can't wait to try TM2, but in the last six months I switched to vim and vico and got extremely comfortable with them. TM2 will have to really be something else for me to switch back.

Hm.. I wonder how many people will switch back to TextMate 2 from Vim/Emacs/Sublime Text?

by brcrth 15y ago

Hm.. I wonder how many people will switch back to TextMate 2 from Vim/Emacs/Sublime Text?

I imagine all three are superior to TM2, especially Vim and Emacs, after you bust through the learning curve no point ever going back.

rachet 15y ago
Last I heard, TM2 was being targeted for Lion - two operating systems ago. Five years is a long time.
- huxley 15y ago
  Little typo there, TM2 was targeting Leopard.
rayiner 15y ago
<- Emacs user (for years) who is looking to switch back to TM at least for some things. Can't live anymore without a modern non-fidgety GUI or basic necessities like Lion fullscreen support. Programming on a laptop dramatically changes the cost/benefit of keyboard-heavy interfaces, IMHO. E.g. it's almost as quick for me to flick the cursor to switch tabs as it is to type a chorded keyboard shortcut to switch buffers, especially factoring in the ability to look and think about what buffer I want before initiating any movement.
- tikhonj 15y ago
  On the other hand, the buffer system scales up to much larger amounts of buffers really easily, which I find very useful. Also, on KDE at least, Emacs has both a very nice GUI and fullscreen support. Finally, I am now using a 13" laptop, and using the keyboard is still more efficient despite the really nice touchpad my new computer has.
- __david__ 15y ago
  > E.g. it's almost as quick for me to flick the cursor to switch tabs as it is to type a chorded keyboard shortcut to switch buffers, especially factoring in the ability to look and think about what buffer I want before initiating any movement. Hah. Try doing that when you have 782 open buffers. :-) Also, Emacs doesn't have real Lion full screen support, but try "M-x set-variable RET ns-auto-hide-menu-bar RET t RET" which comes close.
  - rayiner 15y ago
    > Also, Emacs doesn't have real Lion full screen support, but try "M-x set-variable RET ns-auto-hide-menu-bar RET t RET" which comes close. It doesn't come close at all. It takes over the primary desktop which results in very weird behavior with the Dock. Which is, ultimately, the thing that drives me up the wall about Emacs. It doesn't behave like an OS X app, and the token GUI support is fiddly and jarring (lack of smooth scrolling, etc). Now that other editors are upping the ante in terms of scriptability (Sublime Text has an awesome Python API, too bad its closed-source), the reasons to stick with Emacs are rapidly decreasing for me.
    - __david__ 15y ago
      > It takes over the primary desktop which results in very weird behavior with the Dock. Not sure what you mean. It's pre-Lion style full-screen, not weird at all. It just hides the menu and the dock. I'm not sure I agree that Emacs's GUI support is "token" but I would admit to it not being the emphasis of the program. I give them a lot of credit for having a Mac port in the main codebase and keeping 3 or 4 disparate GUIs in sync with each other. Scrolling with the trackpad is crazy fast by default, I had to slow it down with the "mouse-wheel-scroll-amount" customization (I only did this after multiple years because it doesn't matter that much in the end--I realized that if I'm using the mouse in Emacs I'm generally doing something wrong). Smooth scrolling is anathema to Emacs which doesn't even let you resize the window in sub font-height increments. I don't think that decision is necessarily correct but I think it probably comes from Emacs's heritage as a terminal program. I think smooth scrolling could be nice. I do have to say that in the long run C-v, M-v, and C-s end up being way faster and more accurate than 2 finger scrolling. A funny aside, I did one of the first (if not the first) port of Emacs to OS X back in the Mac OS X Beta days and someone sent me an email saying the menubar was blank--there were no menus in the program. The funny part was I had released it and had been using it as my main text editor for weeks and I never even noticed. :-)
- grundprinzip 15y ago
  Aquamacs has fullscreen support and for homebrew there are a few patches out that will enable fullscreen for vanilla emacs.

ashleyw 15y ago

After playing with TM2 for half an hour or so, I don't think I'll be switching back from Vim. I was hoping for some split-screen action and maybe some advanced autocomplete intergration, but it doesn't seem to have either. It's looking to be a great update and improves on a lot of things in the existing version, but if I were honest, I'd have to say I wouldn't bother upgrading if it wasn't free. That said, it's obviously an alpha release, so who knows what the future will hold.

brcrth 15y ago
I don't have a license so I don't saw the alpha but it's seems frustrating that in 5 years of "development" so little was added. But, OTOH, it's not the final version.
- dextorious 15y ago
  """But, OTOH, it's not the final version.""" That doesn't change much. Either it will be released soon, so not much will be added in the final version, or we wait for more stuff to be added before it's released in another 2-5 years, making it totally pointless as of now. (And given that it's not like the previous 5 years were well spent, we already know how this will go...)
  - bigfudge 15y ago
    Except that if the guts are there to add features quickly, it could have been time well spent. We just don't know yet, but progress over the next month should be indicative (see progress on ST2 as an example of a seemingly healthy codebase in this regard)
pealco 15y ago
What sorts of things does it improve?
- ashleyw 15y ago
  Release Notes: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/tm2_release_notes.html http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/tm2_release_notes... Major changes include the new project drawer (though, I prefer ProjectPlus[1]), and the new bundle/theme updater[2], where you just tick the box and it auto-installs. - [1] http://ciaranwal.sh/2008/08/05/textmate-plug-in-projectplus http://ciaranwal.sh/2008/08/05/textmate-plug-in-projectplus [2] http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/1hgh.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/891742/Screenshots/1hgh.png

equalarrow 15y ago

Ha, funny. I just switched back to Emacs this past week after a 5 year hiatus. Thank god for muscle memory..

neutronicus 15y ago

This emacs user won't. I've gotten too used to org-mode, SLIME, M-x shell, and a host of other things I'm pretty sure textmate doesn't do.

tikhonj 15y ago
You should add Tramp to your list--I don't think textmate has anything like it and it's extremely useful. You can open a remote file or shell as easily as opening the same locally; my coworkers don't even notice that I'm editing files remotely!
- wahnfrieden 15y ago
  Vim has this too (netrw) though it's not nearly as nice (as is typically the case.)
- sunchild 15y ago
  TM2 seems to have a similar function. Haven't tried installing on the server side though. Edit: Here it is... http://erniemiller.org/2011/12/12/textmate-2-rmate-awesome/ http://erniemiller.org/2011/12/12/textmate-2-rmate-awesome/
  - tikhonj 15y ago
    That seems similar. However, for Emacs, you don't have to install anything on the remote computer--it uses scp by default, I think. It also supports different protocols; for example, you can use it to edit files, browse directories or run shells with sudo.

jaxn 15y ago

I gave up and went with Sublime when I bought a new machine a couple of months ago. I won't be switching to TM2

Derbasti 15y ago

Funny though, how many people got hooked on Textmate and moved on to Emacs or Vim in the last few years. I certainly did. After tasting Emacs or Vim, there is no going back. I wonder whether we would have stayed if Textmate had been updated earlier. I also wonder whether this new spring in text editors might be in part a reaction to Textmates hibernation. Maybe if it had been updated earlier, there would be no Sublime Text, no Kod, no Chocolat and no Vico?

kellishaver 15y ago

I like Sublime Text, I paid for it, and it's cross-platform. No going back for me.

scelerat 15y ago

I can't wait to try TM2, but in the last six months I switched to vim and vico and got extremely comfortable with them. TM2 will have to really be something else for me to switch back.