6 ms·

The irony of posters on here —a website that’s a pretty decent example of moderation leading to a better user experience — posting about how we must abolish the

The irony of posters on here —a website that’s a pretty decent example of moderation leading to a better user experience — posting about how we must abolish the mods is never lost on me. Shine on you crazy diamonds!

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jtvjan 4y ago
This site has exactly what the article suggests. You can select the "showdead" option in your profile to see posts that have been removed.
- notahacker 4y ago
  It doesn't show users that have been removed though...
  - amadeuspagel 4y ago
    Yes it does.
    - notahacker 4y ago
      Showdead shows algorithmically shadowbanned accounts and domains and [most] flagged comments. It doesn't let accounts that Dang has withdrawn posting privileges from continue to post.
      - dang 4y ago
        Banned users can still post. Their posts are autokilled. There have been a handful (fewer than 10) extreme cases over the years where we temporarily blocked someone from posting, but that almost never happens—it's an emergency measure. For anyone wondering why we allow certain banned accounts to keep posting, even though what they post is so dreadful, the answer is that if we didn't, they would just create a new account and that new account would start off unbanned, which would be a step backwards.
- braingenious 4y ago
  You do know that they actually permanently remove content on here sometimes, right? I love reading banned users posts! It is not the only tier of moderation at play though.
  - dang 4y ago
    No, we don't. We only delete things outright when the author asks us to (and typically, when it didn't get any replies—otherwise we try redacting, reassigning to a different username, and/or other things).
    - braingenious 4y ago
      I stand corrected! For whatever reason I remember seeing a lot of blanked-out flagged posts when kiwifarms went down, but I could be remembering things wrong.
      - dang 4y ago
        Perhaps it's that they were collapsed? Either that or not having 'showdead' turned on in your profile would be the two likeliest reasons.
- madeofpalk 4y ago
  But just removed comments. but it pretty heavily moderates titles and other stuff.
dalbasal 4y ago
Syd Barrett here. The point of debate here is how to divide moderation from censorship. I'd argue that size and power matter most. How you moderate is a technicality. It makes the difference between good and bad moderation, but it doesn't make the difference between moderation and censorship. This article's tips might make your moderation better. They will not make censorship into moderation. HN's moderation is moderation because HN isn't a medium monopoly like meta, twitter or alphabet. If HN's moderation, intentionally or incidentally, suppresses negative opinions about tensorflow... that's still not censorship. It might be biased moderation, but the web is big and local biases are OK. It's OK to have a newspaper, webforum or whatnot that supports the christian democrats and ridicules socialists. It's not OK if all the newspapers must do this. That's twitters problem. "Moderation" applies to the medium as a whole. Anarchy does not want "no rules" it wants "no rulers." I agree that moderation is necessary. That does not mean that "moderation" on youtube is not censorship. Both can be true. Maybe we can't have free speech, medium monopolies and a pleasant user experience. One has to give.
- 6stringmerc 4y ago
  To me, censorship is about what’s being said. Moderation is about how things are said. They are not mutually exclusive.
  - criddell 4y ago
    I don't understand the distinction. If you are on a tech-oriented forum and post some celebrity news with no tech angle and the mods remove it, is that censorship?
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      After reading Yishan's post this morning. I've been convinced to believe the same as GP. Censorship is about content; moderation is about behavior. These are orthogonal concepts and for reasons related to mod/user framing, not always distinguishable. The hypothetical is too reductive to be helpful in making that decision. There are other datapoints and social framing that would be needed to answer your question. As it stands, it's like having one equation and ten unknowns and asking what the solution is - it depends.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jtvjan 4y ago

This site has exactly what the article suggests. You can select the "showdead" option in your profile to see posts that have been removed.

notahacker 4y ago
It doesn't show users that have been removed though...
- amadeuspagel 4y ago
  Yes it does.
  - notahacker 4y ago
    Showdead shows algorithmically shadowbanned accounts and domains and [most] flagged comments. It doesn't let accounts that Dang has withdrawn posting privileges from continue to post.
    - dang 4y ago
      Banned users can still post. Their posts are autokilled. There have been a handful (fewer than 10) extreme cases over the years where we temporarily blocked someone from posting, but that almost never happens—it's an emergency measure. For anyone wondering why we allow certain banned accounts to keep posting, even though what they post is so dreadful, the answer is that if we didn't, they would just create a new account and that new account would start off unbanned, which would be a step backwards.
braingenious 4y ago
You do know that they actually permanently remove content on here sometimes, right? I love reading banned users posts! It is not the only tier of moderation at play though.
- dang 4y ago
  No, we don't. We only delete things outright when the author asks us to (and typically, when it didn't get any replies—otherwise we try redacting, reassigning to a different username, and/or other things).
  - braingenious 4y ago
    I stand corrected! For whatever reason I remember seeing a lot of blanked-out flagged posts when kiwifarms went down, but I could be remembering things wrong.
    - dang 4y ago
      Perhaps it's that they were collapsed? Either that or not having 'showdead' turned on in your profile would be the two likeliest reasons.
madeofpalk 4y ago
But just removed comments. but it pretty heavily moderates titles and other stuff.

dalbasal 4y ago

Syd Barrett here. The point of debate here is how to divide moderation from censorship. I'd argue that size and power matter most. How you moderate is a technicality. It makes the difference between good and bad moderation, but it doesn't make the difference between moderation and censorship. This article's tips might make your moderation better. They will not make censorship into moderation. HN's moderation is moderation because HN isn't a medium monopoly like meta, twitter or alphabet. If HN's moderation, intentionally or incidentally, suppresses negative opinions about tensorflow... that's still not censorship. It might be biased moderation, but the web is big and local biases are OK. It's OK to have a newspaper, webforum or whatnot that supports the christian democrats and ridicules socialists. It's not OK if all the newspapers must do this. That's twitters problem. "Moderation" applies to the medium as a whole. Anarchy does not want "no rules" it wants "no rulers." I agree that moderation is necessary. That does not mean that "moderation" on youtube is not censorship. Both can be true. Maybe we can't have free speech, medium monopolies and a pleasant user experience. One has to give.

6stringmerc 4y ago
To me, censorship is about what’s being said. Moderation is about how things are said. They are not mutually exclusive.
- criddell 4y ago
  I don't understand the distinction. If you are on a tech-oriented forum and post some celebrity news with no tech angle and the mods remove it, is that censorship?
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    After reading Yishan's post this morning. I've been convinced to believe the same as GP. Censorship is about content; moderation is about behavior. These are orthogonal concepts and for reasons related to mod/user framing, not always distinguishable. The hypothetical is too reductive to be helpful in making that decision. There are other datapoints and social framing that would be needed to answer your question. As it stands, it's like having one equation and ten unknowns and asking what the solution is - it depends.