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> Unlike with an bare int, a "Month" type has places to actually document all that Good chance it won't actually be documented there though, or that the docume
by MaulingMonkey 4y ago
> Unlike with an bare int, a "Month" type has places to actually document all that
Good chance it won't actually be documented there though, or that the documentation will lie. Similarly, that documentation can easily live on a date-style object, where it's more likely to be accurate.
> So your counter argument, which is entirely the same for an int anyway, is utterly absurd.
No, I've eliminated several possibilities with a plain int that you've conveniently left unquoted. I do still have some ambiguity, but less, and gained clarity in several things you've - again - conveniently left unquoted. It's not perfect, but it's an improvement.
> I don't really know what your point even is here. Your ide or code base is bad, therefore everyone should share your pain?
Every codebase has some bad code, and my point is - even with good IDE assistence - a typedef still requires digging. And if my own personal experience is anything to go by, most codebases have a lot of bad code.
If you've been blessed with only perfect codebases handed down to you from the gods themselves, pristine and pure, maybe Month is less opaque for you than it is to me. You have my sympathy for the shock and horror you'll experience should you ever touch code writtten by mere mortals ;)
> It's the same end result of a wrapper type being vastly superior to a bare int.
I challenge you to share a single real life bug that you've managed to catch or prevent with a strong month type. Go on, I'll wait. Or show me some code from a real codebase where a stronger month type actually improves readability more than, say, a variable named month_index or month_no. Show me a concrete example of this vast superiority improving the readability of a function in a real codebase. Or where it's lack has made things confusing, and the mere addition of "Month" would provide clarity.
> I could never do the same for an "int" variable.
You can absolutely attach comments and documentation to variables, methods, and properties.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.datetime.month?view=net-7.0#property-value https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/api/system.datetime...
Oh gee, is that an `int` month property that states it's range? Yes. Yes it is. And I don't have to drill further into the documentation to look at the type of the property, and can just look at the property? Bonus points!
> It really sounds like you're just wanting to obsessively nitpick the specific example of "Month" than anything about what the guideline is even saying.
I'm providing context to point out the limits of the guideline and where it goes too far, using it's own example. Hardly obsessive nitpicking.
> If you're just too lazy to make a Month then sure knock yourself out. But at least be honest that you're just being lazy in the now with a hope it doesn't bite you later, don't pretend you're making an actually better or more readable decision. We all take the lazy out from time to time.
Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly lazy. Otherwise known as cost efficient. I have better things to do than to create or untangle a mess of opaque types that do little more than obfuscate the code for some hypothetical type safety that - based on personal experience - won't actually add any safety in practice, won't catch any bugs, won't provide a meaningful improvement to documentation or code readability, and will just slow me down and take time away from working on something that might actually be important (perhaps some practical type safety.)
I would hope my coworkers also have better things to do with their time as well. The possibilities and backlog are infinite, but our time is not.
- account42 4y ago> Good chance it won't actually be documented there though, or that the documentation will lie The most natural fit for the Month type here is an enum, enum class or something that wraps one with additional functionality. And while sure you could have enum Month { }; and then use Month(0) for january or whatever, that's just deliberate obfuscation and not what anyone reasonable would do for normal code. And it's still not worse than an int. > No, I've eliminated several possibilities with a plain int that you've conveniently left unquoted. Do you? Someone could have added a #define int float after all. Your arguments that just because someone could obfuscate the type in some way that that inherently makes using a Month type bad is just that: absurd. > Oh gee, is that an `int` month property that states it's range? Yes. Yes it is. And I don't have to drill further into the documentation to look at the type of the property, and can just look at the property? Bonus points! Except if you are assingning one month property from another month property you have to check the documentation for both that they math (and not just almost match). Whereas with a strong type the compiler checks that for you.
- MaulingMonkey 4y ago> The most natural fit for the Month type here is an enum, enum class or something that wraps one with additional functionality. And I remain unconvinced that any of those "natural fits" add value. > Do you? Yes. > Someone could have added a #define int float after all. That would be straight up undefined behavior. Can't redefine keywords. Even a badly defined "i32" is clearly buggy enough that even the most foolish coworkers won't do it, and cleaning up after the outright malicious is at least more straightforward. You're trying to say that the likelyhood of stupid tech debt from weird backwards compatability nonsense, and straight up intentional chaos, but I don't buy that you even believe it yourself. I have seen plenty of the former in real codebases, and a tiny fraction of the latter. Even the broken-ass codebases that I've worked on that have invoked undefined behavior by redefining keywords haven't gone as dumb as #define int float. I've seen #define true 1 though. > Except if you are assingning one month property from another month property you have to check the documentation for both that they math (and not just almost match). Whereas with a strong type the compiler checks that for you. Even if you have two type-matched "Month" properties, if they belong to dates in different timezones, there's a good chance you've just written a bug by forgetting to account for the difference - and that's a far more likely bug to slip through the cracks than mixing up month index and month ordinal. And when you don't have type-matched "Month" properties, the author will likely write the same code they would've with integers, just with a bunch more casts, if only because they don't want to eat the recompiles of touching a date/time header that gets included goodness knows how far and wide. Putting it another way: I'd argue that the manipulation of individual months is already inherently not type safe, as it lacks enough context to be type safe.