4 ms·

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.

vogt 4y ago
>Sure, why not? Well, for starters, to prevent the police from kicking my door in and shooting me or my pets simply because I was placed on a list of people who downloaded an app. Simply "police chase and abandon leads all the time" is not a strong enough rationale to justify the original suggestion to me.
- googlryas 4y ago
  So you think the police will kick down the door of the 50,000 people who downloaded the app?
  - vogt 4y ago
    Of course not. My position is that if one person is wrongly persecuted despite breaking no laws, they should not be considered a suspect. Once police decide "We need the list of everyone who downloaded the app.", those 50,000 people are all suspects. Here's what I _would_ be in favor of: -Police bust Catalyic Converter Kingpin in one form or another -Police learn in the course of investigation that said kingpin was a prolific user of said app -Police subpoena the usernames of accounts that corresponded directly with the kingpin There's a compromise to be had here without throwing 50,000 into a digital suspect bin when maybe half were people actually complicit to...wait for it...a crime.
- joenot443 4y ago
  Is it seriously your working model of police that they’re frequently given lists of people who download apps and instructed to kill them? That’s how you believe policing works? I know the BLM astroturfing had a profound effect on the rest of the internet, but it’s disappointing to see such a skewed version of reality presented here on HN. I just downloaded the app. Bring on the marauders. If they end up blasting me, you can start a charity in my honor, Vogt.
  - willcipriano 4y ago
    The FBI was recently kicking in journalists doors because they had seen, not stolen or even published, Bidens daughter's diary. If somebody in power wants to make a name for themselves by starting a "war on cat thieves" or similar you may face the same treatment.
    - TheHypnotist 4y ago
      "Journalists" meaning Project Veritas well known for edited videos and a failed attempt to sting a major media outlet. The people that were arrested accepted money from PV for the stolen property. Nice try.
  - 93po 4y ago
    It is an accurate model that police frequently bust down the doors of people who are suspected of a crime based only on a third party's report, and not because of any investigation or probable cause. It's also accurate that police are trained to escalate extremely quickly, including the use of lethal force. And it's accurate that policing has a culture of unapologetic lethal force.
    - joenot443 4y ago
      One would have to have their head in the sand the last couple years to have not heard these kind of stories. I'd hope that people on this site would still be able to infer that legally downloading an app isn't enough to trigger that kind of response in literally any US jurisdiction. The world is a scary place, cops can be bastards, and terrible things have happened, but it's straight up hyperbole and nonsense to pretend that a random internet nerd is going to get killed by police because they downloaded an app. I downloaded it (it's crap, as expected), so if I'm wrong on this then I'm willing to face the music, yet somehow I think I'll sleep fine at night.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - vogt 4y ago
tourist2d 4y ago
By that logic you're fine with Google handing over all users' location data to the police? Since the police can just determine if you're not involved in crime from it.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Google isn't some app designed for criminals, so no.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    The app was designed for phones.
    - googlryas 4y ago
      Intentionally misunderstanding simple sentences doesn't make you clever or further your point.
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        I'm guessing your misunderstanding wasn't intentional.
Levitz 4y ago
Because the precedent set is downright scary. Half a step removed from putting anyone who uses torrents on a list.

vogt 4y ago

>Sure, why not? Well, for starters, to prevent the police from kicking my door in and shooting me or my pets simply because I was placed on a list of people who downloaded an app. Simply "police chase and abandon leads all the time" is not a strong enough rationale to justify the original suggestion to me.

googlryas 4y ago
So you think the police will kick down the door of the 50,000 people who downloaded the app?
- vogt 4y ago
  Of course not. My position is that if one person is wrongly persecuted despite breaking no laws, they should not be considered a suspect. Once police decide "We need the list of everyone who downloaded the app.", those 50,000 people are all suspects. Here's what I _would_ be in favor of: -Police bust Catalyic Converter Kingpin in one form or another -Police learn in the course of investigation that said kingpin was a prolific user of said app -Police subpoena the usernames of accounts that corresponded directly with the kingpin There's a compromise to be had here without throwing 50,000 into a digital suspect bin when maybe half were people actually complicit to...wait for it...a crime.
joenot443 4y ago
Is it seriously your working model of police that they’re frequently given lists of people who download apps and instructed to kill them? That’s how you believe policing works? I know the BLM astroturfing had a profound effect on the rest of the internet, but it’s disappointing to see such a skewed version of reality presented here on HN. I just downloaded the app. Bring on the marauders. If they end up blasting me, you can start a charity in my honor, Vogt.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  The FBI was recently kicking in journalists doors because they had seen, not stolen or even published, Bidens daughter's diary. If somebody in power wants to make a name for themselves by starting a "war on cat thieves" or similar you may face the same treatment.
  - TheHypnotist 4y ago
    "Journalists" meaning Project Veritas well known for edited videos and a failed attempt to sting a major media outlet. The people that were arrested accepted money from PV for the stolen property. Nice try.
- 93po 4y ago
  It is an accurate model that police frequently bust down the doors of people who are suspected of a crime based only on a third party's report, and not because of any investigation or probable cause. It's also accurate that police are trained to escalate extremely quickly, including the use of lethal force. And it's accurate that policing has a culture of unapologetic lethal force.
  - joenot443 4y ago
    One would have to have their head in the sand the last couple years to have not heard these kind of stories. I'd hope that people on this site would still be able to infer that legally downloading an app isn't enough to trigger that kind of response in literally any US jurisdiction. The world is a scary place, cops can be bastards, and terrible things have happened, but it's straight up hyperbole and nonsense to pretend that a random internet nerd is going to get killed by police because they downloaded an app. I downloaded it (it's crap, as expected), so if I'm wrong on this then I'm willing to face the music, yet somehow I think I'll sleep fine at night.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- vogt 4y ago

tourist2d 4y ago

By that logic you're fine with Google handing over all users' location data to the police? Since the police can just determine if you're not involved in crime from it.

googlryas 4y ago
Google isn't some app designed for criminals, so no.
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  The app was designed for phones.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Intentionally misunderstanding simple sentences doesn't make you clever or further your point.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      I'm guessing your misunderstanding wasn't intentional.

Levitz 4y ago

Because the precedent set is downright scary. Half a step removed from putting anyone who uses torrents on a list.