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>That's a great story, how you came up, after immigrating to America from India. However, very important points that you have glossed over is the history of sla

>That's a great story, how you came up, after immigrating to America from India. However, very important points that you have glossed over is the history of slavery, redlining, Jim Crow (and other laws), voting suppression, etc... of Black Americans who are the descendants of slaves. They (and other ethnic groups) were being shut out of opportunities, and the courts were attempting to alleviate this in some way. The original purpose of affirmative action, was to help those that were being actively and consistently discriminated against. And not one of those things is in the least bit his fault or responsibility, least of all the fault or responsibility of his son or many other kids in the same situation. It's a pernicious, grotesque notion that people with no personal or ancestral fault in a specific historical context should be punished for its existence as a compensation to others. The idea is in fact little better than the implicit punishment-through-bias accorded to other minorities because they or their ancestors were at one time considered inferior. A society can alleviate past wrongs without creating new ones of a similar if softer flavor against yet other collectively defined groups. >As a more recent immigrant, you are benefiting from laws and polices, which are the result of historical issues, court battles, and actual battles in America. Many Americans fought, died, and were jailed to get laws changed. And so what? Does he somehow owe a personal debt to a country because it, for reasons of its own, decided to fix and fight against internal historical wrongs that its own people had created in the first place? Another idiotic and ugly idea: that a country makes itself better and then is right to foist part of the cost onto people who later come to it specifically because it's supposedly become a better and more just place, as if they'd had a part in its previous wrongs. That you make such absurd arguments shows how much the ideological aspect of affirmative action (vs. its practical, carefully balanced merits) has contaminated much progressive thinking.

Kleinlieu 4y ago
Every generation inherits the debts of the past and a duty to pay it down. Just because I was born into this world and personally did not endorse the use of CFCs or the petrodollar system doesn’t mean I’m absolved of being a participant in finding solutions to the nth-order effects these technologies introduce into the world.
- TexanFeller 4y ago
  I’m doubtful the majority agree with you on that!
Akronymus 4y ago
> It's a pernicious, grotesque notion that people with no personal or ancestral fault in a specific historical context should be punished for its existence as a compensation to others. Yeah, affirmitive action kinda warped into something akin to the biblical original sin IMO.
light_hue_1 4y ago
> And so what? Does he somehow owe a personal debt to a country because it, for reasons of its own, decided to fix and fight against internal historical wrongs that its own people had created in the first place? Yes. He owes a personal debt because the average wealth of white families is vastly higher than that of black families because they were exploited for 300+ years. The black student who worked even harder but started much further behind, with far fewer resources, deserves a shot too. Even if they didn't get as far. You're comparing an ultra-privileged child with a child who comes far behind. So course you need to factor that in! Otherwise you might as well just look at their net worth and only admit children of the rich, because look, they're so far ahead in life already. > That you make such absurd arguments shows how much the ideological aspect of affirmative action (vs. its practical, carefully balanced merits) has contaminated much progressive thinking. You have been contaminated by racism and a lack of caring. You want to live in a world where black people are an endless underclass that you can exploit.
- helloworld11 4y ago
  Truly, what the hell? First, the guy in question is from India and isn't an Anglo/European white man who "benefited" from centuries of exploitation of blacks in the United States. Secondly, many white people in the United States today also managed to build a life for themselves without having done so. Your notion of historical guilt really is more like the absurd religious idea of original sin than a realistic or genuinely fair minded concept of justice and blame. Furthermore, nothing I said is about continuing to exploit black people or advocating racism. It's specifically about redressing past wrongs against African Americans and other minorities without creating new ones against other arbitrarily assigned groups, particularly if they're immigrants who have also had to suffer for their forward movement and have no personal fault in the past racial tensions and injustices of a country they're not originally from. Why would you completely misinterpret a fairly straightforward argument in the most emotionally charged, simplistic and negative way possible?
  - light_hue_1 4y ago
    > Why would you completely misinterpret a fairly straightforward argument in the most emotionally charged, simplistic and negative way possible? Why would you ignore basic facts? White families in the US stole from black families for centuries. Today the average white family has more than 10x the wealth of the average black family. This must be fixed. It is not a "historical wrong". It is a wrong that is occurring now. Today. To real people. By the wealthy in the US toward minorities who are much poorer. > the guy in question is from India and isn't an Anglo/European white man who "benefited" from centuries of exploitation of blacks in the United States What nonsense. He moved to a country where white people stole from black people for centuries. Then said "Well, we're rich now, and the theft happened a while ago, so.. good luck!". And now he shares in that stolen wealth. He is as responsible as everyone else. > Furthermore, nothing I said is about continuing to exploit black people or advocating racism. It's specifically about redressing past wrongs against African Americans and other minorities without creating new ones against other arbitrarily assigned groups, particularly if they're immigrants who have also had to suffer for their forward movement and have no personal fault in the past racial tensions and injustices of a country they're not originally from. How can you redress a wrong against black and native people if it's illegal to look at whether someone is black or native when giving life-changing opportunities? Come on. Just admit it. You enjoy your racism and have zero desire to help anyone. Stop hiding behind "I totally want to help people, as long as literally no one is inconvenienced, without any plan, outcomes, or goals." Please.

Kleinlieu 4y ago

Every generation inherits the debts of the past and a duty to pay it down. Just because I was born into this world and personally did not endorse the use of CFCs or the petrodollar system doesn’t mean I’m absolved of being a participant in finding solutions to the nth-order effects these technologies introduce into the world.

TexanFeller 4y ago
I’m doubtful the majority agree with you on that!

Akronymus 4y ago

> It's a pernicious, grotesque notion that people with no personal or ancestral fault in a specific historical context should be punished for its existence as a compensation to others. Yeah, affirmitive action kinda warped into something akin to the biblical original sin IMO.

light_hue_1 4y ago

> And so what? Does he somehow owe a personal debt to a country because it, for reasons of its own, decided to fix and fight against internal historical wrongs that its own people had created in the first place? Yes. He owes a personal debt because the average wealth of white families is vastly higher than that of black families because they were exploited for 300+ years. The black student who worked even harder but started much further behind, with far fewer resources, deserves a shot too. Even if they didn't get as far. You're comparing an ultra-privileged child with a child who comes far behind. So course you need to factor that in! Otherwise you might as well just look at their net worth and only admit children of the rich, because look, they're so far ahead in life already. > That you make such absurd arguments shows how much the ideological aspect of affirmative action (vs. its practical, carefully balanced merits) has contaminated much progressive thinking. You have been contaminated by racism and a lack of caring. You want to live in a world where black people are an endless underclass that you can exploit.

helloworld11 4y ago
Truly, what the hell? First, the guy in question is from India and isn't an Anglo/European white man who "benefited" from centuries of exploitation of blacks in the United States. Secondly, many white people in the United States today also managed to build a life for themselves without having done so. Your notion of historical guilt really is more like the absurd religious idea of original sin than a realistic or genuinely fair minded concept of justice and blame. Furthermore, nothing I said is about continuing to exploit black people or advocating racism. It's specifically about redressing past wrongs against African Americans and other minorities without creating new ones against other arbitrarily assigned groups, particularly if they're immigrants who have also had to suffer for their forward movement and have no personal fault in the past racial tensions and injustices of a country they're not originally from. Why would you completely misinterpret a fairly straightforward argument in the most emotionally charged, simplistic and negative way possible?
- light_hue_1 4y ago
  > Why would you completely misinterpret a fairly straightforward argument in the most emotionally charged, simplistic and negative way possible? Why would you ignore basic facts? White families in the US stole from black families for centuries. Today the average white family has more than 10x the wealth of the average black family. This must be fixed. It is not a "historical wrong". It is a wrong that is occurring now. Today. To real people. By the wealthy in the US toward minorities who are much poorer. > the guy in question is from India and isn't an Anglo/European white man who "benefited" from centuries of exploitation of blacks in the United States What nonsense. He moved to a country where white people stole from black people for centuries. Then said "Well, we're rich now, and the theft happened a while ago, so.. good luck!". And now he shares in that stolen wealth. He is as responsible as everyone else. > Furthermore, nothing I said is about continuing to exploit black people or advocating racism. It's specifically about redressing past wrongs against African Americans and other minorities without creating new ones against other arbitrarily assigned groups, particularly if they're immigrants who have also had to suffer for their forward movement and have no personal fault in the past racial tensions and injustices of a country they're not originally from. How can you redress a wrong against black and native people if it's illegal to look at whether someone is black or native when giving life-changing opportunities? Come on. Just admit it. You enjoy your racism and have zero desire to help anyone. Stop hiding behind "I totally want to help people, as long as literally no one is inconvenienced, without any plan, outcomes, or goals." Please.