3 ms·

Can someone tell me what they track that say, google or meta doesn't? I have yet to see anything that is tracked that isn't a part of the internet ad ecosystem

Can someone tell me what they track that say, google or meta doesn't? I have yet to see anything that is tracked that isn't a part of the internet ad ecosystem invented here in the USA. Yet there's a huge political movement to ban tiktok that seems to center around the idea that the chinese government may be involved. This being a technical forum with a lot of employees from the ad industry here, I'd expect a hell of a lot more data points about what they're taking and why it warrants a ban. Someone please give specifics. Personally, I always act as though everything about everyone is being taken and that's the world we live in now and there's too much money companies are making for anyone to ever protect the data cow. If the US government wants to prevent this then they have to legislate and make rules that turn off the data spigot to US corporations too.

colordrops 4y ago
Exactly, the subtext here is that it's a large adversarial nation state collecting the data, rather than Tik Tok being an exceptional privacy violator, which they are not. Most large tech firms and apps on app stores are just as egregious.
doodlesdev 4y ago
It's not that the idea the Chinese government _could_ be involved. The Chinese government _IS_ involved (as in it's an indubitable fact), this is also true for any other Chinese mainland corporation. Some even are part of the government itself (like Tencent). If the involvement of a communist dictatorship that's an enemy to the USA having millions of data points on US citizens and it's allies is a problem or not, that's another discussion (IMO yes but I'm willing to hear others opinions on this).
- calgoo 4y ago
  I always think of information warfare. Why bomb another nation when you can use all their private info to destroy their personal life’s. People ask why I’m not worried that the US has the same info, and I am to a degree, but in the current climate I’m more worried about an attack coming from china / Russia then from the US ( I’m from the EU).
  - w1nst0nsm1th 4y ago
    Consedering US mined NordStream 1 & 2, you should wory as much about US. Beside, they are 1 election away from electing Trump and Marjolie Taylor Green as Potus and VP.
- joshspankit 4y ago
  Though implied, it’s worth noting specifically: Any traffic that passes through China (for example: companies with servers in China) is gobbled up by the Chinese government. Whether a company wants to or not, if they have servers in China they are giving all information to the Chinese govt.
gloryjulio 4y ago
CCP has the party member in every company board. American companies has a leash. That's the difference. China is not ur typical democratic country. I wish we could just get over this point.
- antris 4y ago
  > American companies has a leash And what leash is that? The US government is the prime example of what happens when corporate money enters politics. There are only two parties and both of them serve the interests of capital. The US doesn't even break up monopolies or cartels anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#United_Stat...
  - gloryjulio 4y ago
    How does that invalid my points of China's companies and US companies are not at the same level? Yeah America bad it's not that effective I totally agree with you. Let me rephrase it this way, if you think Google/Meta (which I agree), China companies are much worse. Democratic countries have many problems. But please stop comparing them to the countries like China. There are levels.
    - antris 4y ago
      You said US companies have a leash, even though US is the prime example of corporate control of government. Companies are the same all over the world, their job is to maximize their value to investors by any means necessary. That's as true in China as it is in the US, so there's no difference. When it comes to government, neither US nor China has any effective democratic controls on corporations. China has only one party which controls companies with authority, and the US has two parties which both represent the companies themselves.
      - gloryjulio 4y ago
        Here we go again. Yes, I agree with u on us on every point in isolation. But they r not at the same level. They are NOT the same. U cant just nihilisitically put them together. If u don't know how CCP operates, how china companies r just direct extension of CCP where party members have would directly inject themselves into the companies, go read some materials first. There no private companies in the US/EU sense in China. I am not here to teach the basics and not intersted the equal bad debate. And not replying to this person any more
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rvz 4y ago
> Personally, I always act as though everything about everyone is being taken and that's the world we live in now and there's too much money companies are making for anyone to ever protect the data cow. If the US government wants to prevent this then they have to legislate and make rules that turn off the data spigot to US corporations too. That should also include giant fines for privacy violations for all companies who want to operate in the US or the EU and the fines should be in the billions of dollars. Given that Facebook got a $5BN massive fine from the FTC for violating the privacy of their users and Google repeatedly getting fined for privacy violations in the EU nearing in the billions of euros, then TikTok should most certainly be fined in the multi-billions for all these privacy violations in [0], [1], [2] and [3]. [0] https://futurism.com/tiktok-spy-locations-specific-americans https://futurism.com/tiktok-spy-locations-specific-americans [1] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-permission-to-collect-biometric-data-on-u-s-users-including-faceprints-and-voiceprints/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63494951 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63494951
- taurath 4y ago
  Not a single one of your links relates to a privacy "violation" though. Once again, I'm asking someone to tell me what they take that Google and Meta don't.
startupsfail 4y ago
The problem is that certain organizations can harvest recordings of illegal or semi-legal activities (think a teenager sharing a video with her crush, etc) and then five-ten years down the line that content can be used as a blackmail to do industrial espionage, sabotage, etc. China is an autocracy. Even if it is not doing it already it can easily start doing it in the near future. One can look at the example of another neighboring autocracy and see where the trajectory could lead.
yucky 4y ago
Google and Meta track for the US Government though, TikTok tracks for the CCP. That's literally it. That's the difference. Big Tech is part of the government surveillance apparatus. The reason Russia and China don't want Google and FB having a foothold in their countries is the same reason the US doesn't want TikTok to have a foothold here.
tmaly 4y ago
In light of these revelations and in deference to national security, I am going to have to stop making twerking videos on their platform.

colordrops 4y ago

Exactly, the subtext here is that it's a large adversarial nation state collecting the data, rather than Tik Tok being an exceptional privacy violator, which they are not. Most large tech firms and apps on app stores are just as egregious.

doodlesdev 4y ago

It's not that the idea the Chinese government _could_ be involved. The Chinese government _IS_ involved (as in it's an indubitable fact), this is also true for any other Chinese mainland corporation. Some even are part of the government itself (like Tencent). If the involvement of a communist dictatorship that's an enemy to the USA having millions of data points on US citizens and it's allies is a problem or not, that's another discussion (IMO yes but I'm willing to hear others opinions on this).

calgoo 4y ago
I always think of information warfare. Why bomb another nation when you can use all their private info to destroy their personal life’s. People ask why I’m not worried that the US has the same info, and I am to a degree, but in the current climate I’m more worried about an attack coming from china / Russia then from the US ( I’m from the EU).
- w1nst0nsm1th 4y ago
  Consedering US mined NordStream 1 & 2, you should wory as much about US. Beside, they are 1 election away from electing Trump and Marjolie Taylor Green as Potus and VP.
joshspankit 4y ago
Though implied, it’s worth noting specifically: Any traffic that passes through China (for example: companies with servers in China) is gobbled up by the Chinese government. Whether a company wants to or not, if they have servers in China they are giving all information to the Chinese govt.

gloryjulio 4y ago

CCP has the party member in every company board. American companies has a leash. That's the difference. China is not ur typical democratic country. I wish we could just get over this point.

antris 4y ago
> American companies has a leash And what leash is that? The US government is the prime example of what happens when corporate money enters politics. There are only two parties and both of them serve the interests of capital. The US doesn't even break up monopolies or cartels anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#United_Stat...
- gloryjulio 4y ago
  How does that invalid my points of China's companies and US companies are not at the same level? Yeah America bad it's not that effective I totally agree with you. Let me rephrase it this way, if you think Google/Meta (which I agree), China companies are much worse. Democratic countries have many problems. But please stop comparing them to the countries like China. There are levels.
  - antris 4y ago
    You said US companies have a leash, even though US is the prime example of corporate control of government. Companies are the same all over the world, their job is to maximize their value to investors by any means necessary. That's as true in China as it is in the US, so there's no difference. When it comes to government, neither US nor China has any effective democratic controls on corporations. China has only one party which controls companies with authority, and the US has two parties which both represent the companies themselves.
    - gloryjulio 4y ago
      Here we go again. Yes, I agree with u on us on every point in isolation. But they r not at the same level. They are NOT the same. U cant just nihilisitically put them together. If u don't know how CCP operates, how china companies r just direct extension of CCP where party members have would directly inject themselves into the companies, go read some materials first. There no private companies in the US/EU sense in China. I am not here to teach the basics and not intersted the equal bad debate. And not replying to this person any more

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rvz 4y ago

> Personally, I always act as though everything about everyone is being taken and that's the world we live in now and there's too much money companies are making for anyone to ever protect the data cow. If the US government wants to prevent this then they have to legislate and make rules that turn off the data spigot to US corporations too. That should also include giant fines for privacy violations for all companies who want to operate in the US or the EU and the fines should be in the billions of dollars. Given that Facebook got a $5BN massive fine from the FTC for violating the privacy of their users and Google repeatedly getting fined for privacy violations in the EU nearing in the billions of euros, then TikTok should most certainly be fined in the multi-billions for all these privacy violations in [0], [1], [2] and [3]. [0] https://futurism.com/tiktok-spy-locations-specific-americans https://futurism.com/tiktok-spy-locations-specific-americans [1] https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-permission-to-collect-biometric-data-on-u-s-users-including-faceprints-and-voiceprints/ https://techcrunch.com/2021/06/03/tiktok-just-gave-itself-pe... [2] https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-tapes-us-user-data-china-bytedance-access https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/emilybakerwhite/tiktok-... [3] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63494951 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63494951

taurath 4y ago
Not a single one of your links relates to a privacy "violation" though. Once again, I'm asking someone to tell me what they take that Google and Meta don't.

startupsfail 4y ago

The problem is that certain organizations can harvest recordings of illegal or semi-legal activities (think a teenager sharing a video with her crush, etc) and then five-ten years down the line that content can be used as a blackmail to do industrial espionage, sabotage, etc. China is an autocracy. Even if it is not doing it already it can easily start doing it in the near future. One can look at the example of another neighboring autocracy and see where the trajectory could lead.

yucky 4y ago

Google and Meta track for the US Government though, TikTok tracks for the CCP. That's literally it. That's the difference. Big Tech is part of the government surveillance apparatus. The reason Russia and China don't want Google and FB having a foothold in their countries is the same reason the US doesn't want TikTok to have a foothold here.

tmaly 4y ago

In light of these revelations and in deference to national security, I am going to have to stop making twerking videos on their platform.