4 ms·

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or inva

by skeeter2020 4y ago

Ever been to a pawn shop? Everything in a legit operation runs through this process. >> The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this. I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters.

serf 4y ago
>I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters. you should probably re-evaluate your ideas about personal ID with regards to travel if you're interested in over-reach. These laws are routinely used as an anti-immigration method by ICE and equivalents, and there is very little proof that they do much to make the world any safer.
- alar44 4y ago
  Anyone who thinks countries and states don't have the right to control their borders has lost touch with reality.
  - danielheath 4y ago
    Sure they do, but in an ostensibly-free state is "you must unlock your devices and give immigration full access to the data within" really a reasonable position? If you wanted to bring sketchy data into the country, surely it'd be easier to do it via a VPN, right?
WalterBright 4y ago
In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.
- heleninboodler 4y ago
  I assume this hasn't taken effect yet? I bought booze today in WA without showing ID.
  - WalterBright 4y ago
    They always make me give them ID to scan.
- vinay427 4y ago
  Is this a law that mandates scanning of IDs for authenticity purposes or storing that data? The few other states I could easily find online that had a similar law typically require that retailers either don’t store the data or that they delete it within X days.
  - csomar 4y ago
    The shop might store the data or misuse it. This is already a solved problem. A privately signed identity that can be verified without transferring any of the data using a device the government provides. But I already said government too much. This is all non-senses. Transactions should not be monitored.
- re 4y ago
  It's not state law, whoever told you that is misinformed. It's just the policy of the store you go to (presumably QFC/Fred Meyer).
- mbg721 4y ago
  I asked a checkout worker about this once (in Ohio), and they claimed they were made to do it so that the state could pressure people with expired drivers' licenses to renew them. (This was right about when they were ending COVID-related extensions on the expiration dates.) I don't agree with using liquor age laws for that either, but I think if the state wanted invasive personal data, they'd just ask Kroger for it.
- csomar 4y ago
Fatnino 4y ago
Regarding ID for flying... I took a flight today. I had to show my ID once at the start of the security line where they did NOT check my boarding pass. Then at the gate they only wanted to see my boarding pass and not my ID. So basically nobody actually cares about ID when flying. It would have been trivial to buy the ticket in a false name or "borrow" someone else's name without asking. To be clear, this failing is all on the gate procedure. If security wanted to check boarding pass or if they have to hooked up on the computer there, a simple bypass would be to buy a cheap ticket in your real name and the ticket you intend to fly in some other name.
- varenc 4y ago
  They scan your ID and look up your flight in databases based on your name. It’s been happening for a few years now: https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-new-technology/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-new-technology/
- adamj9431 4y ago
  This new procedure and equipment is partially rolled out at TSA checkpoints across the US, has been for a couple of years now. The agent's computer shows the flight information. No reason to have an extra step to scan a boarding pass since the computer pulls it all up anyways. To get through TSA as a member of the general public, you have to have a ticket (or a non-traveler gate pass) in your real name (matching your ID, soon to be real ID requirement) for a flight leaving in the next N hours. International flights check your passport at the boarding gate. For domestic, sure, you could swap to another boarding pass purchased under a different name, but what's the threat model there? You've already been screened.
  - Fatnino 4y ago
    Now you aren't being tracked. Say you've done a crime that will be discovered in a few days. You buy a ticket to Detroit and next week the fbi will be wasting its time looking for you in Michigan and trying to convince Canada to search for you in Ontario. In reality you hopped on a flight to El Paso under a fake name and you are deep into Mexico by now.

serf 4y ago

>I'm on guard for overreah all the time, but I'm OK with showing ID to buy alcohol, drive a car, fly on a plane, sell items that should rarely be done in bulk outside of rare conditions, like a bunch of catalytic converters. you should probably re-evaluate your ideas about personal ID with regards to travel if you're interested in over-reach. These laws are routinely used as an anti-immigration method by ICE and equivalents, and there is very little proof that they do much to make the world any safer.

alar44 4y ago
Anyone who thinks countries and states don't have the right to control their borders has lost touch with reality.
- danielheath 4y ago
  Sure they do, but in an ostensibly-free state is "you must unlock your devices and give immigration full access to the data within" really a reasonable position? If you wanted to bring sketchy data into the country, surely it'd be easier to do it via a VPN, right?

WalterBright 4y ago

In Washington State, there's a new law where I not only have to show ID to buy booze, I have to have my ID scanned. So now, the government keeps track of what and how much booze I buy. Ugh. This is beyond stupid, as people stopped thinking I might be under 21 back when the buffalo roamed.

heleninboodler 4y ago
I assume this hasn't taken effect yet? I bought booze today in WA without showing ID.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  They always make me give them ID to scan.
vinay427 4y ago
Is this a law that mandates scanning of IDs for authenticity purposes or storing that data? The few other states I could easily find online that had a similar law typically require that retailers either don’t store the data or that they delete it within X days.
- csomar 4y ago
  The shop might store the data or misuse it. This is already a solved problem. A privately signed identity that can be verified without transferring any of the data using a device the government provides. But I already said government too much. This is all non-senses. Transactions should not be monitored.
re 4y ago
It's not state law, whoever told you that is misinformed. It's just the policy of the store you go to (presumably QFC/Fred Meyer).
mbg721 4y ago
I asked a checkout worker about this once (in Ohio), and they claimed they were made to do it so that the state could pressure people with expired drivers' licenses to renew them. (This was right about when they were ending COVID-related extensions on the expiration dates.) I don't agree with using liquor age laws for that either, but I think if the state wanted invasive personal data, they'd just ask Kroger for it.
csomar 4y ago

Fatnino 4y ago

Regarding ID for flying... I took a flight today. I had to show my ID once at the start of the security line where they did NOT check my boarding pass. Then at the gate they only wanted to see my boarding pass and not my ID. So basically nobody actually cares about ID when flying. It would have been trivial to buy the ticket in a false name or "borrow" someone else's name without asking. To be clear, this failing is all on the gate procedure. If security wanted to check boarding pass or if they have to hooked up on the computer there, a simple bypass would be to buy a cheap ticket in your real name and the ticket you intend to fly in some other name.

varenc 4y ago
They scan your ID and look up your flight in databases based on your name. It’s been happening for a few years now: https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-new-technology/ https://thepointsguy.com/news/tsa-new-technology/
adamj9431 4y ago
This new procedure and equipment is partially rolled out at TSA checkpoints across the US, has been for a couple of years now. The agent's computer shows the flight information. No reason to have an extra step to scan a boarding pass since the computer pulls it all up anyways. To get through TSA as a member of the general public, you have to have a ticket (or a non-traveler gate pass) in your real name (matching your ID, soon to be real ID requirement) for a flight leaving in the next N hours. International flights check your passport at the boarding gate. For domestic, sure, you could swap to another boarding pass purchased under a different name, but what's the threat model there? You've already been screened.
- Fatnino 4y ago
  Now you aren't being tracked. Say you've done a crime that will be discovered in a few days. You buy a ticket to Detroit and next week the fbi will be wasting its time looking for you in Michigan and trying to convince Canada to search for you in Ontario. In reality you hopped on a flight to El Paso under a fake name and you are deep into Mexico by now.