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> Really wish the cops would download a list of who installed this app and find their location data on top of a map of reported thefts... Uh... So, I too found

> Really wish the cops would download a list of who installed this app and find their location data on top of a map of reported thefts... Uh... So, I too found the website and couldn't believe how brazen the business is. I too was surprised about the app. If I downloaded the app because I was so surprised, should my name be given to the police as part of this investigation? That's ridiculous.

gpm 4y ago
Yes. I'd say that counts as probable cause, someone who downloaded the app probably committed a crime. The standard for a search isn't beyond a reasonable doubt.
- insaneirish 4y ago
  > I'd say that counts as probable cause, someone who downloaded the app probably committed a crime. What?! Is Apple a co-conspirator then? What about the people who did app review? Should we round them up and charge them, too?
  - gpm 4y ago
    > Is Apple a co-conspirator then Probably not? Is doing something that is likely aiding in a crime, but that you don't know for certain is, enough to make you a co-conspirator? Does it change if you do it frequently enough that you're sure you've aided in a crime a fair number of times? I think not, but I'm not sure what the relevant legal standards are. > What about the people who did app review Even less likely than Apple, and even if it's technically illegal it would be a good exercise of prosecutorial discretion to not charge them.
  - scotty79 4y ago
    You should investigate them at least. There's no harm in shining a little light on how purely criminal app got approved to be in the walled garden. And maybe some money to be forfeitured there as well.
  - khazhoux 4y ago
    The word "probably" here is in the context of probable cause, which (as we all know) is a criminal law standard. The commenter is not suggesting that a download should be enough to face charges, but that it would be enough for law enforcement to investigate you.
fastball 4y ago
Why is that ridiculous? Information like that is subpoena'd all the time. An inadvertent customer of a criminal organization is still a customer of a criminal organization. If you're not dealing in stolen catalytic converters not really sure why you would care if the cops know you downloaded an app for that.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
UberFly 4y ago
No you won't be a part of the investigation unless you just quickly unloaded the 95 catalytic convertors you had sitting around in your garage.
googlryas 4y ago
Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.
- vogt 4y ago
  >Sure, why not? Well, for starters, to prevent the police from kicking my door in and shooting me or my pets simply because I was placed on a list of people who downloaded an app. Simply "police chase and abandon leads all the time" is not a strong enough rationale to justify the original suggestion to me.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    So you think the police will kick down the door of the 50,000 people who downloaded the app?
    - vogt 4y ago
      Of course not. My position is that if one person is wrongly persecuted despite breaking no laws, they should not be considered a suspect. Once police decide "We need the list of everyone who downloaded the app.", those 50,000 people are all suspects. Here's what I _would_ be in favor of: -Police bust Catalyic Converter Kingpin in one form or another -Police learn in the course of investigation that said kingpin was a prolific user of said app -Police subpoena the usernames of accounts that corresponded directly with the kingpin There's a compromise to be had here without throwing 50,000 into a digital suspect bin when maybe half were people actually complicit to...wait for it...a crime.
  - joenot443 4y ago
    Is it seriously your working model of police that they’re frequently given lists of people who download apps and instructed to kill them? That’s how you believe policing works? I know the BLM astroturfing had a profound effect on the rest of the internet, but it’s disappointing to see such a skewed version of reality presented here on HN. I just downloaded the app. Bring on the marauders. If they end up blasting me, you can start a charity in my honor, Vogt.

gpm 4y ago

Yes. I'd say that counts as probable cause, someone who downloaded the app probably committed a crime. The standard for a search isn't beyond a reasonable doubt.

insaneirish 4y ago
> I'd say that counts as probable cause, someone who downloaded the app probably committed a crime. What?! Is Apple a co-conspirator then? What about the people who did app review? Should we round them up and charge them, too?
- gpm 4y ago
  > Is Apple a co-conspirator then Probably not? Is doing something that is likely aiding in a crime, but that you don't know for certain is, enough to make you a co-conspirator? Does it change if you do it frequently enough that you're sure you've aided in a crime a fair number of times? I think not, but I'm not sure what the relevant legal standards are. > What about the people who did app review Even less likely than Apple, and even if it's technically illegal it would be a good exercise of prosecutorial discretion to not charge them.
- scotty79 4y ago
  You should investigate them at least. There's no harm in shining a little light on how purely criminal app got approved to be in the walled garden. And maybe some money to be forfeitured there as well.
- khazhoux 4y ago
  The word "probably" here is in the context of probable cause, which (as we all know) is a criminal law standard. The commenter is not suggesting that a download should be enough to face charges, but that it would be enough for law enforcement to investigate you.

fastball 4y ago

Why is that ridiculous? Information like that is subpoena'd all the time. An inadvertent customer of a criminal organization is still a customer of a criminal organization. If you're not dealing in stolen catalytic converters not really sure why you would care if the cops know you downloaded an app for that.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

UberFly 4y ago

No you won't be a part of the investigation unless you just quickly unloaded the 95 catalytic convertors you had sitting around in your garage.

googlryas 4y ago

Sure, why not? It's not like anyone is saying merely installing the app makes you guilty of anything. It's just a lead. Police chase leads all the time and then abandon when they determine the person isn't involved in the crime.

vogt 4y ago
>Sure, why not? Well, for starters, to prevent the police from kicking my door in and shooting me or my pets simply because I was placed on a list of people who downloaded an app. Simply "police chase and abandon leads all the time" is not a strong enough rationale to justify the original suggestion to me.
- googlryas 4y ago
  So you think the police will kick down the door of the 50,000 people who downloaded the app?
  - vogt 4y ago
    Of course not. My position is that if one person is wrongly persecuted despite breaking no laws, they should not be considered a suspect. Once police decide "We need the list of everyone who downloaded the app.", those 50,000 people are all suspects. Here's what I _would_ be in favor of: -Police bust Catalyic Converter Kingpin in one form or another -Police learn in the course of investigation that said kingpin was a prolific user of said app -Police subpoena the usernames of accounts that corresponded directly with the kingpin There's a compromise to be had here without throwing 50,000 into a digital suspect bin when maybe half were people actually complicit to...wait for it...a crime.
- joenot443 4y ago
  Is it seriously your working model of police that they’re frequently given lists of people who download apps and instructed to kill them? That’s how you believe policing works? I know the BLM astroturfing had a profound effect on the rest of the internet, but it’s disappointing to see such a skewed version of reality presented here on HN. I just downloaded the app. Bring on the marauders. If they end up blasting me, you can start a charity in my honor, Vogt.