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Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Don't like it? There ar

Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Don't like it? There are lots of industries with nighttime work or extensive travel obligations.

brendoelfrendo 4y ago
Hm, I think this is backwards; there's plenty of evidence that we wake up kids way too early. Really, school schedules are as they are to fit around work schedules, not the other way around. https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h...
- lr4444lr 4y ago
  Adolescents are only "children" in the modern social sense. Young children don't have that shift, and sunlight is important for them: https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/ https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    Are the "more senior workers" with the clout to set the work schedule the ones that have pre-adolescent children, though? That would be one hell of a coincidence, and doesn't match up with parents-of-young-children I know.
- culopatin 4y ago
  Except that school hours end at 3:30 around me and I don’t understand what I would be supposed to do if I continued having my current schedule
wnevets 4y ago
> Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Which do you think came first, jobs that start in the morning or child care that start in the morning?
- pleb_nz 4y ago
  Do you think it's ok for kids to be in child care until 10pm?
  - pc86 4y ago
    Depends when they start. Depends why they're there. Depends on the child care. Being in child care at 10pm isn't inherently any better or worse than being in child care at 10am. It's all relative.
    - Gigachad 4y ago
      No it isn’t. The sun isn’t a social construct. As much as people here want to disconnect from nature and reality. Some things are still rooted in real world unchangeable nature.
  - wnevets 4y ago
    If that was the shift I was working, what choice would I have?
- lr4444lr 4y ago
  I think children, and higher order mammals in general needing significant sunlight for optimal health and early growth/development came way before night owls.
- quantified 4y ago
  Jobs that start in the morning. Farm work for example, those jobs have been around a very long time. Nice to have someone watch the kids, but they came with you to work if necessary. Modern factory and desk jobs are fairly recent inventions.
- jpambrun 4y ago
  Doesn't matter. We are here now. If you can get society as a whole to change working and school hour, I will too. In the mean everything is organized around these hours. If you have kids or work with people who have kids, you have no choice.
orbital223 4y ago
I've seen a lot of research (such as [1]) showing that kids waking up early is actually detrimental to them. I feel the causality goes in pretty much the reverse direction that you're implying: the children are forced to get up early to go to school because their parents need to be free of them early and their parents need to be free of them early because they are forced to be at work early. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/
- semireg 4y ago
  Define: kid. Parent wrote “having kids” and take this from a father of a 5 and 2 year old it’s: “daddy cheezy eggz!!!” at 530am no matter what.
  - culopatin 4y ago
    I read this three times and I still don’t know what your comment was supposed to say or mean.
    - dabbledash 4y ago
      I think they mean: the studies showing bad outcomes from waking up 'kids' early are specifically about teenagers. Little kids get up very early, and the schedules of parents have to account for this.
    - quantified 4y ago
      Children wake up early and you need to wake up with them, feed them nurture them. They'll take you out of your sleep. Actually waking up is on you.
  - AndrewDucker 4y ago
    Take it from the father of a 4 year old and a 2 year old, my kids aren't awake until after 8am. Because, it turns out, children are like other people and vary!
- pleb_nz 4y ago

brendoelfrendo 4y ago

Hm, I think this is backwards; there's plenty of evidence that we wake up kids way too early. Really, school schedules are as they are to fit around work schedules, not the other way around. https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.html https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/features/schools-start-too-early.h...

lr4444lr 4y ago
Adolescents are only "children" in the modern social sense. Young children don't have that shift, and sunlight is important for them: https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/ https://parentingscience.com/kids-need-daylight/
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  Are the "more senior workers" with the clout to set the work schedule the ones that have pre-adolescent children, though? That would be one hell of a coincidence, and doesn't match up with parents-of-young-children I know.
culopatin 4y ago
Except that school hours end at 3:30 around me and I don’t understand what I would be supposed to do if I continued having my current schedule

wnevets 4y ago

> Yeah, because more senior workers eventually have kids, and kids need a proper morning wake up, and child care doesn't run until 10 PM. Which do you think came first, jobs that start in the morning or child care that start in the morning?

pleb_nz 4y ago
Do you think it's ok for kids to be in child care until 10pm?
- pc86 4y ago
  Depends when they start. Depends why they're there. Depends on the child care. Being in child care at 10pm isn't inherently any better or worse than being in child care at 10am. It's all relative.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    No it isn’t. The sun isn’t a social construct. As much as people here want to disconnect from nature and reality. Some things are still rooted in real world unchangeable nature.
- wnevets 4y ago
  If that was the shift I was working, what choice would I have?
lr4444lr 4y ago
I think children, and higher order mammals in general needing significant sunlight for optimal health and early growth/development came way before night owls.
quantified 4y ago
Jobs that start in the morning. Farm work for example, those jobs have been around a very long time. Nice to have someone watch the kids, but they came with you to work if necessary. Modern factory and desk jobs are fairly recent inventions.
jpambrun 4y ago
Doesn't matter. We are here now. If you can get society as a whole to change working and school hour, I will too. In the mean everything is organized around these hours. If you have kids or work with people who have kids, you have no choice.

orbital223 4y ago

I've seen a lot of research (such as [1]) showing that kids waking up early is actually detrimental to them. I feel the causality goes in pretty much the reverse direction that you're implying: the children are forced to get up early to go to school because their parents need to be free of them early and their parents need to be free of them early because they are forced to be at work early. [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2820578/

semireg 4y ago
Define: kid. Parent wrote “having kids” and take this from a father of a 5 and 2 year old it’s: “daddy cheezy eggz!!!” at 530am no matter what.
- culopatin 4y ago
  I read this three times and I still don’t know what your comment was supposed to say or mean.
  - dabbledash 4y ago
    I think they mean: the studies showing bad outcomes from waking up 'kids' early are specifically about teenagers. Little kids get up very early, and the schedules of parents have to account for this.
  - quantified 4y ago
    Children wake up early and you need to wake up with them, feed them nurture them. They'll take you out of your sleep. Actually waking up is on you.
- AndrewDucker 4y ago
  Take it from the father of a 4 year old and a 2 year old, my kids aren't awake until after 8am. Because, it turns out, children are like other people and vary!
pleb_nz 4y ago