8 ms·
A layoff guide for tweeps
- pmjones 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Volundr 4y agoOne thing I was surprised not to see here but applies to any termination for any reason (even quitting really): do not sign anything without being paid for it. Even if they are offering a severance run it by a lawyer first. Without though, just don't, no matter how innocuous it seems. It's for their benefit, not yours.
- seibelj 4y agoIf you are a highly skilled technologist you will not have any issue finding a new job. If you are greatly bothered by the changes at Twitter and the new ownership it is almost certainly for the best that you leave and do something else. I don't see why someone skilled enough to work at Twitter would desperately hang on working for someone you can't stand to try and get some severance. Life isn't fair and this is the free market, and you are earning Big Buck$, dust off the resume and join a new company. Life is too short to live like that.
- intrasight 4y agoPerhaps. But a lot of people really invest in their job and their projects and their colleagues, and it's a traumatic experience.
- biohax2015 4y agoWell hopefully it’s also a learning experience to not invest so much in an entity that doesn’t give a crap about your wellbeing.
- intrasight 4y agoWith age and experience comes that wisdom
- fzeroracer 4y agoI don't know if you know this or not, but often people's first job is in fact at a company. Perhaps even Twitter, so they may not have gone through a wave of layoffs before and don't know their rights or have connected to coworkers outside of work-specific communications.
- jonathankoren 4y agoWhy quit for free when you can make them pay?
- type-r 4y agoWhat makes you think they're going to pay?
- frollo 4y agoEither they pay or you can sue, publicly complain damaging their reputation and so on. That's why you never quit in this cases, but make sure that everybody knows that your BFF is a lawyer.
- jonathankoren 4y agoUnless the company has zero money, there is always a severance package.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- UncleOxidant 4y ago"Preparing for a Malicious “For-Cause” Termination The new leadership has dramatically changed the expectations of workload across the organization. It is now expected that teams work evenings and weekends to ship products. Work progress is being tracked by the hour in spreadsheets to build precedent for terminating workers “for cause” to avoid paying severance. " That's just shitty. Richest guy in the world and he doesn't want to pay severance. CA has some pretty strong labor laws, I'd think requiring people to work evenings & weekends would be a no-go. From a game-theory standpoint it seems like given that Musk is going to do everything he can to keep from paying severance that the best strategy would be for everyone to just walk out the door all together and let Musk figure it all out by himself. Don't give notice, just stop showing up for work.
- VHRanger 4y agoHaving won a severance lawsuit in the past (Quebec jurisdiction though): Employment lawyers must be salivating at this point. Twitter is blatantly trying to avoid paying severance by using the for cause, and are likely sloppy in doing it given management pressure. Gentle reminder to everyone that a big reason companies pay severance is so you dont sue them. If they offer you the minimum legal package, or worse they try to bullshit you into even less, you should be suing them. Theyre hoping you dont.
- pc86 4y agoEven California's labor laws are not going to be close to anything in Canada. And I don't know how many Twitter folks are remote, but if they're not in a very small minority of states, they're basically at the whims of management. At the end of the day, Twitter is under new management and it is within management's right to change to circumstances of your employment. If they start pushing night and weekend work, and you don't deliver, that alone isn't necessarily a violation of any law. You didn't perform, and it's completely possible that your termination is legally for cause, even in California. Employment law is very complex and honestly the situation will vary drastically even among similarly leveled folks on the same team fired at the same time. What kind of notification you're given, what kind of documentation there, previous reviews, etc. all play a role. I think it's shitty to try to squeeze out people like this but just because it's shitty doesn't mean it's illegal or that it's a good idea to sue over it.
- nrmitchi 4y ago> If you’re not in a single party consent state, get creative. Have a colleague in one of these states hop on the phone to help you record and document any layoff conversations. This feels like very risky advice. If your colleague is not party to a conversation, you can’t just sneak them in to the conversation to have them record it.
- bagels 4y agoI think if by record they mean "write down what is said", this may not violate the wiretap laws of some states.
- gnicholas 4y agoHaving someone on a call writing down what is said does not create as compelling of evidence as an audio/video recording. It would be useful since it would be contemporaneous, but assuming the person is your friend, their loyalty/honesty would be called into question in court. That wouldn't happen with an audio recording (barring deepfakes).
- nrmitchi 4y agoIf by "record" they mean "write down what is said" then they wouldn't specifically be suggesting finding a colleague in a single-party consent state. Because "writing stuff down" isn't prohibited in any state.
- thedufer 4y agoMy reading was that they're suggesting that in so-called two-party consent states, getting a third person in the room (whether or not it's done surreptitiously) and then having consent from 2/3 parties makes the recording legal. That's not true, of course - "two-party" is a bit of a misnomer. This feels like dangerous advice.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- bagels 4y agoTweeps should have formed a union in April. It was obvious that Musk was really going to inflict cruelty and disrespects upon them from the beginning.
- nemo44x 4y agoWhy would the high performing employees unionize with the poor performers to protect them? They’re grateful to see the deadweight cut off.
- toomuchtodo 4y agoYou only need a majority to unionize. Do more than 51% of Twitter employees think they’re the highest performing? Let the exceptionalists fend for themselves if they feel so inclined. You only have to convince the majority, not those who think they’re the best (whether warranted or not). If you’re “high performing”, you’ll land anywhere you want, right? Call their bluff. What do you have to lose? Your tenuous at will employment?
- socialismisok 4y agoI very much disagree that a) Twitter is only cutting dead weight and b) Tweeps are happy about seeing their peers fired en masse.
- nemo44x 4y agoI’m sure there will be some people let go that don’t deserve it. But I imagine the majority of the sorting here is pretty accurate. My guess is 6 months from now the company will be stronger than ever with an inspired staff that trusts their peers are pulling weight too.
- socialismisok 4y agoYou think half of Twitter's engineers aren't just bad, they are dead weight. And there was no performance evaluation system in place to get rid of them? Come on. That's an outrageous claim without any evidence.
- powera 4y agoI would say that Elon Musk must know that trying to layoff half the company under the guise of "for-cause" would be certain to open him up to massive legal liability, but the past few months have led me to suspect Mr. Musk fundamentally misunderstands the American legal system. In any event, it would be illegal, there would be plenty of lawyers ready to work on contingency, and politicians would also be eager to investigate.
- UncleOxidant 4y ago> but the past few months have led me to suspect Mr. Musk fundamentally misunderstands the American legal system. I think you're right, but I also think that he figures he's the richest man in the world and can do pretty much whatever he wants at this point.
- prirun 4y agoI think he understands it just fine. He calculates the cost/benefit ratio of trying something whether it's legal or not. If it works, great for him! If it doesn't work, oh well, it costs him a few extra dollars. Just like trying to back out of the buyout. Most people are easily intimidated by legal-sounding crap, like a severance agreement written up by company lawyers. In my experience, most lawyers are crap (I have had 1 good one out of around 5)and a lot of the "legal agreements" being written have illegal stuff in them, which is why they always say "if anything in this contract is found to be illegal, the rest of it still holds". The advice to consult with a lawyer and maybe an accountant is IMO well worth the extra trouble and expense. They're counting on employees being too intimidated to do it.
- quelltext 4y agoMove your comp letters, redacted promo packets, redacted impact docs, promo letters, and pay stubs (on Workday) to your personal laptop. It’s imperative you have access to your key employment documents. In many cases these systems only have SSO login. So how do you get that data onto your laptop when as mentioned earlier in the article you could be fired for cause when sending data is detected.
- banana-19 4y agoShall we call November 2022 the Mythical Musk Month? I'm not a tweep, but I'd add: - if you have any sort of access to your employer's network from your personal devices (e.g. email / calendar / WiFi etc.) remove it and check for any MDM settings. Especially if your employer has remote wipe capability on your device, or could legally confiscate your device due to some legal policy. - Get a copy of information that makes it easy to write your next resume. E.g. your job description / leveling guide. - If you're more nefarious than I am, consider maxing out any temporary benefits that might not be withdrawn after you leave. E.g. taking home company desk / chair / hardware for loan use in your home office if allowed (to improve your productivity). If they want it back after you're fired for cause, make them come get it, you don't work for them, so why do their work? - Less nefariously, it's probably time that you accidentally "lose your badge" and get a replacement especially if that's used for discounts like car rental, airlines, gym memberships, etc. Copy codes for these things especially if they're a good discount you might use when you're laid off. - Consider the effect being laid off might have on your 401k match etc. Min/Max it out if this makes sense for your financial situation. - Go through your emails to get a list of contacts that you've ever worked with / emailed. You never know who will be a good person to have in your network later (and who might not appear in linkedin) - I have heard people say that there are companies with severance linked non-disparagement clauses that can be a PITA, as well as non-disclosure clauses that make it impossible to disclose severance related things like amounts etc. I'd speculate that these clauses could make it problematic to get advice from your peers / friends. - Plan something good for after the layoff if you're not immediately in need of a new job (take a vacation). - Talk with an immigration attorney about what termination and not having a job means for you and your family. - Find out your employer's policies around termination of people that have immigration issues. - COBRA can be pretty expensive - find out what this might cost for you and your family (it may work out cheaper to just pay for things as they arrive or look at marketplace plans). - Join blind for your employer - Take care of your immediate mental health, when everything is going to shit, remember that making time to do the things that you love doing is important. Walk the dog. Play that game. Go to that happy hour. Good luck
- sizzzzlerz 4y agoThe greatest lie ever told to employees by their company is that "they are all family".
- pascalxus 4y agoWorking at a company like that you really have to come to terms with the fact that any second you're working there, could be your last. Act accordingly. I take that to mean, that one definately should not be working evenings and weekends. Why do all that, for a company that's not going to value your work and look for wrongful ways to terminate you. If anything it means, you should work much fewer hours.
- type-r 4y agoIf we elide "like that" from your first sentence I agree. I promote people always assume that firing could happen anytime. Taking this approach makes you less susceptible to agree to unreasonable requests.
- xtiansimon 4y agoWhat does “for-cause” mean in an at-will state? If you’re fired, you generally still qualify for Unemployment Insurance. Severance payment is not a law, but a per-company practice. If a company plays games with their benefits, that can’t be unexpected.