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I think that if you paid for your home with criminal activity you should forfeit that to repay the victims of your crimes. If your legal and illegal stuff is to

by genmud 4y ago

I think that if you paid for your home with criminal activity you should forfeit that to repay the victims of your crimes. If your legal and illegal stuff is together, tough shit.

DJBunnies 4y ago
Civil forfeiture is lawless.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  Civil forfeiture is a euphemism for theft by authorities.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Civil forfeiture is lawless. Civil forfeiture may be unjust, but it is definitely a product of, and tightly governed by, law. It is also irrelevant to this case, in which criminal, not civil, forfeiture is sought.
laverya 4y ago
Right, but they should have to prove that the home was paid for with crime, and not the other way around.
- notriddle 4y ago
  That seems like an impossible standard. What happens if the criminal took a job that payed less because of their criminal activity, put the legal paychecks into house payments, and the illegal money into food and other consumables?
  - barsonme 4y ago
    Because of Blackstone’s ratio.
  - from 4y ago
    Welcome to the debate on pretrial freezing of untainted assets. Some justices agreed with your point given the fungibility of money and all but the majority disagreed in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_v._United_States. The houses that were seized were probably not their primary residences and may be returned if they win at trial (they probably won’t given that they have nearly every major player in the indictment on tape acknowledging that they have received stolen property).
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  And since the forfeiture sought here is criminal forfeiture, they will have to prove that.
jupp0r 4y ago
Nobody has been convicted of criminal activity yet, that's for a court to decide.
20after4 4y ago
The money won't go to repay any victims.
googlryas 4y ago
I see your point, but imagine a situation where I robbed bank for a million dollars. Should I be able to use that million to pay a really good lawyer to defend me in court? And then after I'm feeling guilty I just throw my hands up and say "well I don't have that million anymore, good luck collecting it from me while I'm in jail." At the very least, I believe the assets would be returned to them if it turns out they are found not guilty. So they are seized but not gone for good.
- genmud 4y ago
  At the federal level, that’s typically what is done.
deleted 4y ago
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by genmud 4y ago

I think that if you paid for your home with criminal activity you should forfeit that to repay the victims of your crimes. If your legal and illegal stuff is together, tough shit.

DJBunnies 4y ago

Civil forfeiture is lawless.

NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
Civil forfeiture is a euphemism for theft by authorities.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Civil forfeiture is lawless. Civil forfeiture may be unjust, but it is definitely a product of, and tightly governed by, law. It is also irrelevant to this case, in which criminal, not civil, forfeiture is sought.

laverya 4y ago

Right, but they should have to prove that the home was paid for with crime, and not the other way around.

notriddle 4y ago
That seems like an impossible standard. What happens if the criminal took a job that payed less because of their criminal activity, put the legal paychecks into house payments, and the illegal money into food and other consumables?
- barsonme 4y ago
  Because of Blackstone’s ratio.
- from 4y ago
  Welcome to the debate on pretrial freezing of untainted assets. Some justices agreed with your point given the fungibility of money and all but the majority disagreed in https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_v._United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_v._United_States. The houses that were seized were probably not their primary residences and may be returned if they win at trial (they probably won’t given that they have nearly every major player in the indictment on tape acknowledging that they have received stolen property).
dragonwriter 4y ago
And since the forfeiture sought here is criminal forfeiture, they will have to prove that.

jupp0r 4y ago

Nobody has been convicted of criminal activity yet, that's for a court to decide.

20after4 4y ago

The money won't go to repay any victims.

googlryas 4y ago

I see your point, but imagine a situation where I robbed bank for a million dollars. Should I be able to use that million to pay a really good lawyer to defend me in court? And then after I'm feeling guilty I just throw my hands up and say "well I don't have that million anymore, good luck collecting it from me while I'm in jail." At the very least, I believe the assets would be returned to them if it turns out they are found not guilty. So they are seized but not gone for good.

genmud 4y ago
At the federal level, that’s typically what is done.

deleted 4y ago

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