4 ms·

Property is not worth a life. Not even the life of the person damaging it. Property can be replaced, a life can not. Besides, there’s way too much margin for e

by nkrisc 4y ago

Property is not worth a life. Not even the life of the person damaging it. Property can be replaced, a life can not. Besides, there’s way too much margin for error in vigilante justice. That’s why we have trials, imperfect as even they may be. They’re certainly better than empowering everyone to be judge, jury, and executioner because they thought you might be committing a property crime.

HarryHirsch 4y ago
Property is not worth a life. Not even the life of the person damaging it. Have you seen the film "Bicycle Thieves"? If someone's property is his livelihood one can have sympathies for those defending it with extreme measures.
NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
>Property is not worth a life. Generally speaking, no, of course not. But, if someone's breaking into your home in the middle of the night, you don't know what their intentions are to just steal some stuff or to rape and murder your family. There's a reason so many states have castle doctrine and such, and it's because there really are bad people out there.
pyuser583 4y ago
It depends on the property. I have medication I need to live. If I don’t take it regularly daily, a clock starts ticking. When the time is up, I die. When I travel I treat my bags like my life. I recent had nasty run in with an airline that wanted me to check my bags. I refused to get on the plane. When I took the next flight, my checked baggage didn’t make the connection. I might have survived if I got to the ER fast enough. But those bags are my life. In developing countries, petrol means access to medicine, food, etc. “Property is more important than life” is a luxury belief for the wealthy and healthy.
- user_7832 4y ago
  Yeah, it definitely depends on the context. If someone stole my bag from my car they'd get a few ml of insulin which is practically worthless to them, but is absolutely necessary for me. If you don't mind my asking, what medication do you take?
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    I’d prefer not to say. HN has a no deletion policy after two hours, so I’m more cautious here than on other forums.
    - user_7832 4y ago
      Totally understandable. It's also the biggest reason I have a pretty pseudo-random username here even though all my other usernames on social media are almost the same.
- nkrisc 4y ago
  The exception that proves the rule.
friend_and_foe 4y ago
If it's not worth your life then don't steal it.
- khazhoux 4y ago
  That's not an argument at all. You could insert any crime into that statement... "If it's not worth your life, then don't commit vehicle registration fraud."
  - friend_and_foe 4y ago
    Only if you deliberately ignore the plain distinction between vehicle registration fraud and stealing a person's stuff.
- nkrisc 4y ago
  Then perhaps the punishment for every crime and infraction should be summary execution. Blow a stop sign? Execution. Over the speed limit? Execution. Stole an apple from the grocery store? Execution. Sounds like a perfect society?
  - friend_and_foe 4y ago
    Don't be ridiculous, there's nothing perfect about a society like that. When you infringe on the rights of another human being, you put yourself at their mercy. Some people are not very reasonable. Legal or illegal, you just might find yourself attacked by that person, possibly killed. Even if you make laws against it, there's always that danger. Every time you violate the rights of another person you're risking your life, and it doesn't matter what the law says.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Uninvited fucking with critical systems of someone's primary method of transit/escape/transportation to medical care/grocery etc, especially with a sawzall under the body of the vehicle, causes a reasonable person to fear for their life.
- 4y ago
PM_me_your_math 4y ago
Nonsense. Thievery will be greatly reduced when the consequences are doubt about your continued existence. Besides, if you continue to steal from people you are hurting them and their family. That has a price and that price should be up to your life.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  How do you explain Texas then? Lots of catalytic converter theft and lots of gun ownership. Now you have two problems. You have to worry about somebody stealing from you, and you have to worry about somebody shooting you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445252
- nkrisc 4y ago
  Just what we need: vigilante justice. Because we know no one ever makes a mistake. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-father-son-shoot-innocent-woman-thought-tried-break-home-sheri-rcna52704 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-father-son-shoo...

by nkrisc 4y ago

HarryHirsch 4y ago

Property is not worth a life. Not even the life of the person damaging it. Have you seen the film "Bicycle Thieves"? If someone's property is his livelihood one can have sympathies for those defending it with extreme measures.

NaturalPhallacy 4y ago

>Property is not worth a life. Generally speaking, no, of course not. But, if someone's breaking into your home in the middle of the night, you don't know what their intentions are to just steal some stuff or to rape and murder your family. There's a reason so many states have castle doctrine and such, and it's because there really are bad people out there.

pyuser583 4y ago

It depends on the property. I have medication I need to live. If I don’t take it regularly daily, a clock starts ticking. When the time is up, I die. When I travel I treat my bags like my life. I recent had nasty run in with an airline that wanted me to check my bags. I refused to get on the plane. When I took the next flight, my checked baggage didn’t make the connection. I might have survived if I got to the ER fast enough. But those bags are my life. In developing countries, petrol means access to medicine, food, etc. “Property is more important than life” is a luxury belief for the wealthy and healthy.

user_7832 4y ago
Yeah, it definitely depends on the context. If someone stole my bag from my car they'd get a few ml of insulin which is practically worthless to them, but is absolutely necessary for me. If you don't mind my asking, what medication do you take?
- pyuser583 4y ago
  I’d prefer not to say. HN has a no deletion policy after two hours, so I’m more cautious here than on other forums.
  - user_7832 4y ago
    Totally understandable. It's also the biggest reason I have a pretty pseudo-random username here even though all my other usernames on social media are almost the same.
nkrisc 4y ago
The exception that proves the rule.

friend_and_foe 4y ago

If it's not worth your life then don't steal it.

khazhoux 4y ago
That's not an argument at all. You could insert any crime into that statement... "If it's not worth your life, then don't commit vehicle registration fraud."
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  Only if you deliberately ignore the plain distinction between vehicle registration fraud and stealing a person's stuff.
nkrisc 4y ago
Then perhaps the punishment for every crime and infraction should be summary execution. Blow a stop sign? Execution. Over the speed limit? Execution. Stole an apple from the grocery store? Execution. Sounds like a perfect society?
- friend_and_foe 4y ago
  Don't be ridiculous, there's nothing perfect about a society like that. When you infringe on the rights of another human being, you put yourself at their mercy. Some people are not very reasonable. Legal or illegal, you just might find yourself attacked by that person, possibly killed. Even if you make laws against it, there's always that danger. Every time you violate the rights of another person you're risking your life, and it doesn't matter what the law says.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Uninvited fucking with critical systems of someone's primary method of transit/escape/transportation to medical care/grocery etc, especially with a sawzall under the body of the vehicle, causes a reasonable person to fear for their life.
4y ago

PM_me_your_math 4y ago

Nonsense. Thievery will be greatly reduced when the consequences are doubt about your continued existence. Besides, if you continue to steal from people you are hurting them and their family. That has a price and that price should be up to your life.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
How do you explain Texas then? Lots of catalytic converter theft and lots of gun ownership. Now you have two problems. You have to worry about somebody stealing from you, and you have to worry about somebody shooting you. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445252 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33445252
nkrisc 4y ago
Just what we need: vigilante justice. Because we know no one ever makes a mistake. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-father-son-shoot-innocent-woman-thought-tried-break-home-sheri-rcna52704 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-father-son-shoo...