5 ms·

As tempting as it is to simply look at the raw facts, context does matter in a situation like this. The software industry is still male-dominated, and that can

by srdev 15y ago

As tempting as it is to simply look at the raw facts, context does matter in a situation like this. The software industry is still male-dominated, and that can be intimidating and draining for people who are not male. Have you ever gone to events where you're the odd one out? Its not a comfortable experience, and even if you force yourself to keep going back, it takes an emotional toll. Think of events like these as a harbor for them to recharge at. I'd also note that the group isn't exclusionary. They do allow men. They just cater to women. As much as I'd like these types of group to be unnecessary, I'd still say their existence is valid.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
Have you ever gone to events where you're the odd one out? Yes. At the last two companies I've worked at, I've been the only non-Indian. I also live in India more than half the time (my current company is based there). When I'm in the US, I practice FMA, and I'm often the only non-Filipino in the room. I plan to travel to Cebu city soon to kick up my training, and I'll likely be the only white guy in my gym. At a yoga class, I'm often the only man. Does this make me the "odd one out"? I could choose to view things that way, but I don't. At work I might be the only white guy, but we are all there to build a great product. At FMA, we are all there to learn how to kick ass. At yoga, we are all there to become stronger and more flexible. If you attend tech events and focus on the differences between yourself and everyone else, you'll feel left out. And you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
- refurb 15y ago
  This is a great point. "Feeling" excluded is often how you view the situation. I had an Asian friend tell me he doesn't like travelling in the southern states (particularly small towns) because people stare at him. He views this as racist behavior. I told him that they stare at me too. I'm a middle-aged white guy, but I'm obviously not from the south either. He views it as being a race issue where I view it as being an outsider issue. Bothers him, doesn't bother me. Same can be said of women who feel they are being excluded. I've worked with groups of women and often one will feel the environment is "unfriendly" while the other women say it's one of the most inclusive environments they've encountered. What's the saying? "Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so"
- nehan 15y ago
  I think the key difference between your situation at your company and women in tech is that your situation is not systematic. There are a lot of other male, white role models doing startups, and they are very visible.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    There are very few white male role models in Filipino Martial Arts. The only one I can think of with any visibility is Matt Damon, and he's hardly an expert [1]. In spite of that, I'm not the odd man out. Instead of thinking "omfg, I don't have slanty eyes like these guys what'll I do", I'm thinking "I'm a bit taller than most of these guys, how can I use this to my advantage?" [1] FMA looks distinctly different from Chinese/Japanese/Korean arts. To distinguish the genetically modified supersoldiers in The Bourne Identity from regular people, the director had them all learn a bit of FMA.
    - nehan 15y ago
      Which is why I limited my response to the situation at your company. I could hypothesize on why you don't feel uncomfortable in the other situations you described, but really it's your own personal experience, and there's no reason to assume your feelings would generalize to everyone in that experience. I see the analogy you're trying to make, but I do not think it applies to women in technology, because there are a lot of other factors (stereotypes of computer scientists, the "brogramming" culture, the fact that you are going to classes in the US [I assume] not in the Phillipines, meaning you are still part of the dominant majority, etc).

by srdev 15y ago

yummyfajitas 15y ago

Have you ever gone to events where you're the odd one out? Yes. At the last two companies I've worked at, I've been the only non-Indian. I also live in India more than half the time (my current company is based there). When I'm in the US, I practice FMA, and I'm often the only non-Filipino in the room. I plan to travel to Cebu city soon to kick up my training, and I'll likely be the only white guy in my gym. At a yoga class, I'm often the only man. Does this make me the "odd one out"? I could choose to view things that way, but I don't. At work I might be the only white guy, but we are all there to build a great product. At FMA, we are all there to learn how to kick ass. At yoga, we are all there to become stronger and more flexible. If you attend tech events and focus on the differences between yourself and everyone else, you'll feel left out. And you'll have no one to blame but yourself.

refurb 15y ago
This is a great point. "Feeling" excluded is often how you view the situation. I had an Asian friend tell me he doesn't like travelling in the southern states (particularly small towns) because people stare at him. He views this as racist behavior. I told him that they stare at me too. I'm a middle-aged white guy, but I'm obviously not from the south either. He views it as being a race issue where I view it as being an outsider issue. Bothers him, doesn't bother me. Same can be said of women who feel they are being excluded. I've worked with groups of women and often one will feel the environment is "unfriendly" while the other women say it's one of the most inclusive environments they've encountered. What's the saying? "Nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so"
nehan 15y ago
I think the key difference between your situation at your company and women in tech is that your situation is not systematic. There are a lot of other male, white role models doing startups, and they are very visible.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  There are very few white male role models in Filipino Martial Arts. The only one I can think of with any visibility is Matt Damon, and he's hardly an expert [1]. In spite of that, I'm not the odd man out. Instead of thinking "omfg, I don't have slanty eyes like these guys what'll I do", I'm thinking "I'm a bit taller than most of these guys, how can I use this to my advantage?" [1] FMA looks distinctly different from Chinese/Japanese/Korean arts. To distinguish the genetically modified supersoldiers in The Bourne Identity from regular people, the director had them all learn a bit of FMA.
  - nehan 15y ago
    Which is why I limited my response to the situation at your company. I could hypothesize on why you don't feel uncomfortable in the other situations you described, but really it's your own personal experience, and there's no reason to assume your feelings would generalize to everyone in that experience. I see the analogy you're trying to make, but I do not think it applies to women in technology, because there are a lot of other factors (stereotypes of computer scientists, the "brogramming" culture, the fact that you are going to classes in the US [I assume] not in the Phillipines, meaning you are still part of the dominant majority, etc).