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Of course, financial crises will always affect entire countries financially. But, private firms usually reallocate capital quickly enough to weather economic sh

Of course, financial crises will always affect entire countries financially. But, private firms usually reallocate capital quickly enough to weather economic shocks faster than the government can. If they can't, they go out of business, losing their own capital. Government bureaucrats don't change their mind quickly enough because they don't suffer personal loss. They might even get promoted. For instance, Nigeria's former economic minister (Okonjo Iweala) was part of a super-corrupt administration; guess where she works today? World Trade Organization DG! I'm a bit relieved you obviously see the evils of Marxist-Leninism and Stalinist strongman socialism, but I doubt any other than those can even exist. If you can recommend a book on truly democratic socialism, I'll take a look at it to see things from your perspective to see why you sincerely believe them. on my own part, I'd love if you check out this book (History of American Socialisms; link: https://cdn.mises.org/History%20of%20American%20Socialisms_3.pdf https://cdn.mises.org/History%20of%20American%20Socialisms_3...). The book analyzes 20+ socialist experiments in the United States. This were individuals pooling their farms and property to start democratic socialist communes because they sincerely believed capitalism was the answer. Mostly sincere humans, but their ideas always failed, and they had to split up. I sincerely want you to read it, even if just the last chapter. Thanks for your reply - not the typical 'gotcha' you expect on a HN thread.

socialismisok 4y ago
I'll check it out. Learning from failures, as long as they are written constructively, is always useful. Have you read about Kibbutzim in your studies? I'm obviously not a fan of ethnonationalism, but they seem to be a collectivist arrangement akin to your brief on farmers in America. As for books to recommend, I'm just finishing The Origin of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood, but that's more of a historical analysis of the differences between French and English agrarian land ownership and how that led to capitalism in England but not France (not immediately, anyway). Peter Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread is next in my queue. It's quite critical of ML politics and suggests instead socialism is only achieved via bottom up worker organizing. It's highly recommended by a bunch of folks. Also, I've found David Harveys lectures a very approachable intro to Marx's Capital https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5vu4MpYgUo&feature=emb_title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5vu4MpYgUo&feature=emb_title And yeah, holy shit so many socialists get way to caught up in feeling superior and it sucks. Also, so many people see the word socialist and start hitting insults. Always nice to have a conversation with someone who disagrees but does so in an interested way.
- socialismisok 4y ago
  Ordered the book you suggested, and I'll reconsider how I represent Ujaama. I'm curious, given your background as coming from Nigeria, and given the extractive (and write destructive, from my understanding) oil industry there that seems to be primarily benefiting the wealthy, how do you view the role and impact capitalism has on Nigeria? Is it the best model? Are there other models to try?

socialismisok 4y ago

I'll check it out. Learning from failures, as long as they are written constructively, is always useful. Have you read about Kibbutzim in your studies? I'm obviously not a fan of ethnonationalism, but they seem to be a collectivist arrangement akin to your brief on farmers in America. As for books to recommend, I'm just finishing The Origin of Capitalism by Ellen Meiksins Wood, but that's more of a historical analysis of the differences between French and English agrarian land ownership and how that led to capitalism in England but not France (not immediately, anyway). Peter Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread is next in my queue. It's quite critical of ML politics and suggests instead socialism is only achieved via bottom up worker organizing. It's highly recommended by a bunch of folks. Also, I've found David Harveys lectures a very approachable intro to Marx's Capital https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5vu4MpYgUo&feature=emb_title https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n5vu4MpYgUo&feature=emb_title And yeah, holy shit so many socialists get way to caught up in feeling superior and it sucks. Also, so many people see the word socialist and start hitting insults. Always nice to have a conversation with someone who disagrees but does so in an interested way.

socialismisok 4y ago
Ordered the book you suggested, and I'll reconsider how I represent Ujaama. I'm curious, given your background as coming from Nigeria, and given the extractive (and write destructive, from my understanding) oil industry there that seems to be primarily benefiting the wealthy, how do you view the role and impact capitalism has on Nigeria? Is it the best model? Are there other models to try?