7 ms·

It was not naïve, they grew up in a generational-scale labor shortage with low inflation and incredibly low costs of living and low energy costs. They had a mi

by VLM 4y ago

It was not naïve, they grew up in a generational-scale labor shortage with low inflation and incredibly low costs of living and low energy costs. They had a minimum wage in a technical legalistic sense, but financial success was guaranteed in practice. Risk taking is safe if you're not able to fail. Nobody lives in that kind of paradise now. Was all squandered.

reneherse 4y ago
I'm aware of, and agree with, the points you've so clearly articulated. But to my mind, being blissfully unaware of the context of one's material success is an example of naivety.
ZephyrBlu 4y ago
Definitely seems like a couple of generations ago you could do basically anything (As long as you did something) and come out pretty decent financially.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  I wonder the extent to which that's the case (or maybe better said "that depends on what 'pretty decent financially' means"). Both sets of grandparents were blue collar (steel milling/odd-jobs and coal mining/nursing). My parents were the first generation to attend college at all and both became public school teachers. Both sets of grandparents had a sizable (very large for a hobby) home garden to supplement the family food and made use of it. I remember eating "government cheese" (literal cheese from the government) at times. They were not substantially better or worse off than the other working-class families we saw around us and hung out with. Their pensions did ensure that they were able to not be in danger of starving in retirement, but they weren't traveling anywhere by airplane (I think maybe ever for one set and exactly once for the other) and, at the end, their estate was settled for an amount of money that one person could easily carry. Is that "pretty decent financially"? I genuinely don't know; it was surviving.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    I'm Gen Z. It's the perception I have but, I don't know if it's accurate. My perception is also definitely biased towards middle class. One other thing is that I'm not american, which probably makes a difference. To refine things a bit more, it seems like if you got a degree and had a white collar job you were probably going to do decently. Nowadays degree + white collar job is basically baseline. My parents are Gen X with degrees (Eng + Chemistry?) and they seem to have enjoyed their 20s and early 30s, settled down in their 30s and ended up pretty well off without ever really worrying about money. I don't think that strategy would work very well today. The world seems a lot more competitive now than it was 20 years ago, and on average it seems like there are less serendipitous opportunities.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      In 1970, 11% of American adults held a Bachelor's degree or higher. That figure proceeded as follows: 1970: 11.0% 1975: 13.9% 1980: 17.0% 1985: 19.4% 1990: 21.3% 1995: 23.0% 2000: 25.6% 2005: 27.7% 2010: 29.9% 2015: 32.5% 2021: 37.9% It's not at all surprising that being in the 83rd percentile of most educated in 1980 gave a better life outcome than having the same absolute level of education but relatively then being in the 62nd percentile in 2021. Roughly speaking, your parents' degrees are about twice as uncommon in 1993 (~midpoint of Gen X undergrad graduation) as they would be today. * - https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.a... ** - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educatio...
      - subarctic 4y ago
        Not to mention Gen X is known for being a smaller generation than the ones before and after it, which is another factor that would have reduced competition for them in their careers.
        sokoloff 4y ago
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  > Seems And it definitely seems like every 20 year old has an incredibly fulfilling and well rounded life if you only look at Instagram.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    I would bet the average Gen X person is closer to what I described than the average 20yo is to Instagram 20yos. I also elaborated in another reply.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      My point was that "seems" is probably based on performative information, like Instagram, not that 20 year olds are doing great. People who work hard downplay how hard they work. People who got lucky play up how hard they work. Objective data points to lifestyles being mostly the same now and 50 years ago.
- northwest65 4y ago
  A couple of generations ago you could have 100sqm house, a small black n white TV, maybe a basic 4 cylinder car if you were doing quite well, and be happy about it. If I lived at the level of consumerism my grandparents did, I could still do basically anything and be comfortable financially. Instead I have every electronic gadget ever made and an expensive Italian automotive exotica fetish and a constant thirst for more dollars to keep the gravy train chugging.
munificent 4y ago
Equally important too that they grew up surrounded by parents who were miserable because they'd sacrifice everything for their jobs.
- xsmasher 4y ago
  Yeah, this is cyclical - If the "Do what you love" parents crash and burn, they tell their children to "Focus on career." If the "Focus on career" parents succeed, they tell their children to "Do what you love."
MichaelCollins 4y ago
My baby boomer uncle likes to brag that he bought a house at 19 after two years of delivering firewood in trunk of his car. He thinks kids today would get similar results with similar effort; it's very tedious.
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  A family friend made 20+k in a summer, spray painting curbs 10-ish years ago. You can still make a lot of money in dumb-sounding niches.
renewiltord 4y ago
It wasn't squandered. Those people took advantage of that living situation to lock in the gains for themselves. It was very effectively used.

by VLM 4y ago

reneherse 4y ago

I'm aware of, and agree with, the points you've so clearly articulated. But to my mind, being blissfully unaware of the context of one's material success is an example of naivety.

ZephyrBlu 4y ago

Definitely seems like a couple of generations ago you could do basically anything (As long as you did something) and come out pretty decent financially.

sokoloff 4y ago
I wonder the extent to which that's the case (or maybe better said "that depends on what 'pretty decent financially' means"). Both sets of grandparents were blue collar (steel milling/odd-jobs and coal mining/nursing). My parents were the first generation to attend college at all and both became public school teachers. Both sets of grandparents had a sizable (very large for a hobby) home garden to supplement the family food and made use of it. I remember eating "government cheese" (literal cheese from the government) at times. They were not substantially better or worse off than the other working-class families we saw around us and hung out with. Their pensions did ensure that they were able to not be in danger of starving in retirement, but they weren't traveling anywhere by airplane (I think maybe ever for one set and exactly once for the other) and, at the end, their estate was settled for an amount of money that one person could easily carry. Is that "pretty decent financially"? I genuinely don't know; it was surviving.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  I'm Gen Z. It's the perception I have but, I don't know if it's accurate. My perception is also definitely biased towards middle class. One other thing is that I'm not american, which probably makes a difference. To refine things a bit more, it seems like if you got a degree and had a white collar job you were probably going to do decently. Nowadays degree + white collar job is basically baseline. My parents are Gen X with degrees (Eng + Chemistry?) and they seem to have enjoyed their 20s and early 30s, settled down in their 30s and ended up pretty well off without ever really worrying about money. I don't think that strategy would work very well today. The world seems a lot more competitive now than it was 20 years ago, and on average it seems like there are less serendipitous opportunities.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    In 1970, 11% of American adults held a Bachelor's degree or higher. That figure proceeded as follows: 1970: 11.0% 1975: 13.9% 1980: 17.0% 1985: 19.4% 1990: 21.3% 1995: 23.0% 2000: 25.6% 2005: 27.7% 2010: 29.9% 2015: 32.5% 2021: 37.9% It's not at all surprising that being in the 83rd percentile of most educated in 1980 gave a better life outcome than having the same absolute level of education but relatively then being in the 62nd percentile in 2021. Roughly speaking, your parents' degrees are about twice as uncommon in 1993 (~midpoint of Gen X undergrad graduation) as they would be today. * - https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.a... ** - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educatio...
    - subarctic 4y ago
      Not to mention Gen X is known for being a smaller generation than the ones before and after it, which is another factor that would have reduced competition for them in their careers.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
BobbyJo 4y ago
> Seems And it definitely seems like every 20 year old has an incredibly fulfilling and well rounded life if you only look at Instagram.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  I would bet the average Gen X person is closer to what I described than the average 20yo is to Instagram 20yos. I also elaborated in another reply.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    My point was that "seems" is probably based on performative information, like Instagram, not that 20 year olds are doing great. People who work hard downplay how hard they work. People who got lucky play up how hard they work. Objective data points to lifestyles being mostly the same now and 50 years ago.
northwest65 4y ago
A couple of generations ago you could have 100sqm house, a small black n white TV, maybe a basic 4 cylinder car if you were doing quite well, and be happy about it. If I lived at the level of consumerism my grandparents did, I could still do basically anything and be comfortable financially. Instead I have every electronic gadget ever made and an expensive Italian automotive exotica fetish and a constant thirst for more dollars to keep the gravy train chugging.

munificent 4y ago

Equally important too that they grew up surrounded by parents who were miserable because they'd sacrifice everything for their jobs.

xsmasher 4y ago
Yeah, this is cyclical - If the "Do what you love" parents crash and burn, they tell their children to "Focus on career." If the "Focus on career" parents succeed, they tell their children to "Do what you love."

MichaelCollins 4y ago

My baby boomer uncle likes to brag that he bought a house at 19 after two years of delivering firewood in trunk of his car. He thinks kids today would get similar results with similar effort; it's very tedious.

BobbyJo 4y ago
A family friend made 20+k in a summer, spray painting curbs 10-ish years ago. You can still make a lot of money in dumb-sounding niches.

renewiltord 4y ago

It wasn't squandered. Those people took advantage of that living situation to lock in the gains for themselves. It was very effectively used.