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"Do what you love and money will follow" has genuinely wrecked many lives. I know too many people (some very close to me) that followed this mantra. What ensue

"Do what you love and money will follow" has genuinely wrecked many lives. I know too many people (some very close to me) that followed this mantra. What ensued was most often very low paying jobs, or long term unemployment. The "luckiest" ones were able to do a career switch later in life. But there is an opportunity cost, as well as great time and effort involved on starting from scratch at that point. Much greater advice is "do something that affords the lifestyle you want to have". This formula will be different for each one and will be a tension between work, money, and personal life. I know people who work jobs they don't love or hate, but pay enough to sustain their living expenses and support their hobbies.

reneherse 4y ago
The equally naive "follow your bliss" or "follow your passion" was the common coming of age advice given by many middle and upper-middle class American baby boomers to their children.
- VLM 4y ago
  It was not naïve, they grew up in a generational-scale labor shortage with low inflation and incredibly low costs of living and low energy costs. They had a minimum wage in a technical legalistic sense, but financial success was guaranteed in practice. Risk taking is safe if you're not able to fail. Nobody lives in that kind of paradise now. Was all squandered.
  - reneherse 4y ago
    I'm aware of, and agree with, the points you've so clearly articulated. But to my mind, being blissfully unaware of the context of one's material success is an example of naivety.
  - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
    Definitely seems like a couple of generations ago you could do basically anything (As long as you did something) and come out pretty decent financially.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I wonder the extent to which that's the case (or maybe better said "that depends on what 'pretty decent financially' means"). Both sets of grandparents were blue collar (steel milling/odd-jobs and coal mining/nursing). My parents were the first generation to attend college at all and both became public school teachers. Both sets of grandparents had a sizable (very large for a hobby) home garden to supplement the family food and made use of it. I remember eating "government cheese" (literal cheese from the government) at times. They were not substantially better or worse off than the other working-class families we saw around us and hung out with. Their pensions did ensure that they were able to not be in danger of starving in retirement, but they weren't traveling anywhere by airplane (I think maybe ever for one set and exactly once for the other) and, at the end, their estate was settled for an amount of money that one person could easily carry. Is that "pretty decent financially"? I genuinely don't know; it was surviving.
      - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
        I'm Gen Z. It's the perception I have but, I don't know if it's accurate. My perception is also definitely biased towards middle class. One other thing is that I'm not american, which probably makes a difference. To refine things a bit more, it seems like if you got a degree and had a white collar job you were probably going to do decently. Nowadays degree + white collar job is basically baseline. My parents are Gen X with degrees (Eng + Chemistry?) and they seem to have enjoyed their 20s and early 30s, settled down in their 30s and ended up pretty well off without ever really worrying about money. I don't think that strategy would work very well today. The world seems a lot more competitive now than it was 20 years ago, and on average it seems like there are less serendipitous opportunities.
        sokoloff 4y ago
        In 1970, 11% of American adults held a Bachelor's degree or higher. That figure proceeded as follows: 1970: 11.0% 1975: 13.9% 1980: 17.0% 1985: 19.4% 1990: 21.3% 1995: 23.0% 2000: 25.6% 2005: 27.7% 2010: 29.9% 2015: 32.5% 2021: 37.9% It's not at all surprising that being in the 83rd percentile of most educated in 1980 gave a better life outcome than having the same absolute level of education but relatively then being in the 62nd percentile in 2021. Roughly speaking, your parents' degrees are about twice as uncommon in 1993 (~midpoint of Gen X undergrad graduation) as they would be today. * - https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.a... ** - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educatio...
  - munificent 4y ago
    Equally important too that they grew up surrounded by parents who were miserable because they'd sacrifice everything for their jobs.
    - xsmasher 4y ago
      Yeah, this is cyclical - If the "Do what you love" parents crash and burn, they tell their children to "Focus on career." If the "Focus on career" parents succeed, they tell their children to "Do what you love."
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    My baby boomer uncle likes to brag that he bought a house at 19 after two years of delivering firewood in trunk of his car. He thinks kids today would get similar results with similar effort; it's very tedious.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      A family friend made 20+k in a summer, spray painting curbs 10-ish years ago. You can still make a lot of money in dumb-sounding niches.
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    It wasn't squandered. Those people took advantage of that living situation to lock in the gains for themselves. It was very effectively used.
- hirvi74 4y ago
  I do not have a passion, and I have always hated that advice for that very reason.
throw8383833jj 4y ago
>> "do something that affords the lifestyle you want to have". Absolutely. And this goes hand in hand with downregulating your lifestyle expectations.
- Moissanite 4y ago
  It's easier to have lower lifestyle expectations when you get fulfilment from your work; much less inclined to show off with a nice car if you can tell people you're saving the world instead of selling lootboxes to children.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - bradlys 4y ago
    Tbh - I find these things hardly overlap. People who like fancy things tend to like fancy things regardless of the job they have. Their satisfaction with their job rarely influenced their purchasing decisions - it’s mostly influenced by their disposable income.
thesuitonym 4y ago
On the other hand, I didn't follow the advice, and instead "Did something I kind of like okay, and can make decent money doing." I've definitely done that, but at the cost of never really chasing down my original dream. Now I'm a crusty old fart and I feel like I could never "do what I love" because I just can't live on entry-level pay anymore--partially due to my lifestyle, but also because I have children, and that's not really an expense you can budget your way out of. So because I didn't do what I loved while I was young, I've kind of missed the train. I might be able to later in life, but I will have to wait quite a while.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  Yes this is mostly advice for young people with no responsibilities.
- efishnc 4y ago
  What did/do you love?
- bradlys 4y ago
  On the other hand if you hadn’t done what you did - you might’ve been perpetually single because no one likes dating a bum, never had kids, and would’ve never enjoyed any of the accommodations in your lifestyle.
  - loa_in_ 4y ago
    Being single does not exclude someone from being happy
    - bradlys 4y ago
      Yes let’s assume everyone is asexual… a fine starting point.
JoeAltmaier 4y ago
Current you versus future you - which one will be happier? If you can't make both happy, then I advise pleasing current-you. Because sometimes the future is cut short. So, doing something that makes you happy, makes you happy now. It's obvious really. No, not hedonistic swill. Just do a job or effort that is fulfilling today. They don't all fail, they can be useful whether you make a fortune or not.
- nyokodo 4y ago
  > Current you versus future you - which one will be happier?...I advise pleasing current-you. Focusing on yourself is a trap. While not ignoring your own needs instead focusing on the happiness of others (e.g. direct joy, relieving suffering, solving problems etc) is the greatest promotion of happiness in everyone including yourself while also having the meaning that will get you through the inevitable troughs.
polishdude20 4y ago
I used to teach and I loved it other than the low pay. I then took a look at what life I wanted in my future and realized for me, what was important was the type of life I wanted overall. I want to be able to afford life's emergencies, I want to be able to not stress about money. I want to have a schedule that is flexible and where my employer trusts me to do my job like an adult. I'm now a software developer and my job isn't as exciting as teaching and nowhere near as social. But it's affording me the life I want both freedom wise and money wise. I don't think of my job as needing to be the thing I love for 8 hours a day. It's a thing I do for 8 hours a day that I like that then gives me a stress free 16 hours a day afterwards. It's a holistic thing.

reneherse 4y ago

The equally naive "follow your bliss" or "follow your passion" was the common coming of age advice given by many middle and upper-middle class American baby boomers to their children.

VLM 4y ago
It was not naïve, they grew up in a generational-scale labor shortage with low inflation and incredibly low costs of living and low energy costs. They had a minimum wage in a technical legalistic sense, but financial success was guaranteed in practice. Risk taking is safe if you're not able to fail. Nobody lives in that kind of paradise now. Was all squandered.
- reneherse 4y ago
  I'm aware of, and agree with, the points you've so clearly articulated. But to my mind, being blissfully unaware of the context of one's material success is an example of naivety.
- ZephyrBlu 4y ago
  Definitely seems like a couple of generations ago you could do basically anything (As long as you did something) and come out pretty decent financially.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I wonder the extent to which that's the case (or maybe better said "that depends on what 'pretty decent financially' means"). Both sets of grandparents were blue collar (steel milling/odd-jobs and coal mining/nursing). My parents were the first generation to attend college at all and both became public school teachers. Both sets of grandparents had a sizable (very large for a hobby) home garden to supplement the family food and made use of it. I remember eating "government cheese" (literal cheese from the government) at times. They were not substantially better or worse off than the other working-class families we saw around us and hung out with. Their pensions did ensure that they were able to not be in danger of starving in retirement, but they weren't traveling anywhere by airplane (I think maybe ever for one set and exactly once for the other) and, at the end, their estate was settled for an amount of money that one person could easily carry. Is that "pretty decent financially"? I genuinely don't know; it was surviving.
    - ZephyrBlu 4y ago
      I'm Gen Z. It's the perception I have but, I don't know if it's accurate. My perception is also definitely biased towards middle class. One other thing is that I'm not american, which probably makes a difference. To refine things a bit more, it seems like if you got a degree and had a white collar job you were probably going to do decently. Nowadays degree + white collar job is basically baseline. My parents are Gen X with degrees (Eng + Chemistry?) and they seem to have enjoyed their 20s and early 30s, settled down in their 30s and ended up pretty well off without ever really worrying about money. I don't think that strategy would work very well today. The world seems a lot more competitive now than it was 20 years ago, and on average it seems like there are less serendipitous opportunities.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        In 1970, 11% of American adults held a Bachelor's degree or higher. That figure proceeded as follows: 1970: 11.0% 1975: 13.9% 1980: 17.0% 1985: 19.4% 1990: 21.3% 1995: 23.0% 2000: 25.6% 2005: 27.7% 2010: 29.9% 2015: 32.5% 2021: 37.9% It's not at all surprising that being in the 83rd percentile of most educated in 1980 gave a better life outcome than having the same absolute level of education but relatively then being in the 62nd percentile in 2021. Roughly speaking, your parents' degrees are about twice as uncommon in 1993 (~midpoint of Gen X undergrad graduation) as they would be today. * - https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d15/tables/dt15_104.10.a... ** - https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educational-attainment.html https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/educatio...
- munificent 4y ago
  Equally important too that they grew up surrounded by parents who were miserable because they'd sacrifice everything for their jobs.
  - xsmasher 4y ago
    Yeah, this is cyclical - If the "Do what you love" parents crash and burn, they tell their children to "Focus on career." If the "Focus on career" parents succeed, they tell their children to "Do what you love."
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  My baby boomer uncle likes to brag that he bought a house at 19 after two years of delivering firewood in trunk of his car. He thinks kids today would get similar results with similar effort; it's very tedious.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    A family friend made 20+k in a summer, spray painting curbs 10-ish years ago. You can still make a lot of money in dumb-sounding niches.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  It wasn't squandered. Those people took advantage of that living situation to lock in the gains for themselves. It was very effectively used.
hirvi74 4y ago
I do not have a passion, and I have always hated that advice for that very reason.

throw8383833jj 4y ago

>> "do something that affords the lifestyle you want to have". Absolutely. And this goes hand in hand with downregulating your lifestyle expectations.

Moissanite 4y ago
It's easier to have lower lifestyle expectations when you get fulfilment from your work; much less inclined to show off with a nice car if you can tell people you're saving the world instead of selling lootboxes to children.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- bradlys 4y ago
  Tbh - I find these things hardly overlap. People who like fancy things tend to like fancy things regardless of the job they have. Their satisfaction with their job rarely influenced their purchasing decisions - it’s mostly influenced by their disposable income.

thesuitonym 4y ago

On the other hand, I didn't follow the advice, and instead "Did something I kind of like okay, and can make decent money doing." I've definitely done that, but at the cost of never really chasing down my original dream. Now I'm a crusty old fart and I feel like I could never "do what I love" because I just can't live on entry-level pay anymore--partially due to my lifestyle, but also because I have children, and that's not really an expense you can budget your way out of. So because I didn't do what I loved while I was young, I've kind of missed the train. I might be able to later in life, but I will have to wait quite a while.

SoftTalker 4y ago
Yes this is mostly advice for young people with no responsibilities.
efishnc 4y ago
What did/do you love?
bradlys 4y ago
On the other hand if you hadn’t done what you did - you might’ve been perpetually single because no one likes dating a bum, never had kids, and would’ve never enjoyed any of the accommodations in your lifestyle.
- loa_in_ 4y ago
  Being single does not exclude someone from being happy
  - bradlys 4y ago
    Yes let’s assume everyone is asexual… a fine starting point.

JoeAltmaier 4y ago

Current you versus future you - which one will be happier? If you can't make both happy, then I advise pleasing current-you. Because sometimes the future is cut short. So, doing something that makes you happy, makes you happy now. It's obvious really. No, not hedonistic swill. Just do a job or effort that is fulfilling today. They don't all fail, they can be useful whether you make a fortune or not.

nyokodo 4y ago
> Current you versus future you - which one will be happier?...I advise pleasing current-you. Focusing on yourself is a trap. While not ignoring your own needs instead focusing on the happiness of others (e.g. direct joy, relieving suffering, solving problems etc) is the greatest promotion of happiness in everyone including yourself while also having the meaning that will get you through the inevitable troughs.

polishdude20 4y ago

I used to teach and I loved it other than the low pay. I then took a look at what life I wanted in my future and realized for me, what was important was the type of life I wanted overall. I want to be able to afford life's emergencies, I want to be able to not stress about money. I want to have a schedule that is flexible and where my employer trusts me to do my job like an adult. I'm now a software developer and my job isn't as exciting as teaching and nowhere near as social. But it's affording me the life I want both freedom wise and money wise. I don't think of my job as needing to be the thing I love for 8 hours a day. It's a thing I do for 8 hours a day that I like that then gives me a stress free 16 hours a day afterwards. It's a holistic thing.