6 ms·

It's not that teachers don't like Creative Students -- my wife is a K-12 Special Ed teacher working on her Ph.D -- but that the educational system doesn't know

by imroot 15y ago

It's not that teachers don't like Creative Students -- my wife is a K-12 Special Ed teacher working on her Ph.D -- but that the educational system doesn't know what to do with students who do not fit into their state-provided lesson plan. In Kentucky, the state dept of Education provides: - The lesson plans - The Powerpoint slides - The quizes - The lecture outline The lazy teachers use the state provided materials and don't change it. The good teachers modify the plans to suit their students learning behavior and work accordingly. The great teachers identify a different instructional design model and make it work for all of the students in their class.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
There are two more groups of teachers you missed: The bad teachers modify the plans in a manner they think suits their students, but works worse than the provided materials. The terrible teachers completely make up their own system, which simply fails.
- imroot 15y ago
  The kids are tested every year at a state level that ensures that the student who lives in BFE, Kentucky (where I live) receives the same level of education as a student in a medium sized town and both students learn the same things that a student who lives in a 'major' area like Lexington or Louisville will learn. If a teacher isn't making the grades at a statewide level, they will get rid of her or cut funding to the school. Sadly, this means that many lazy teachers are just teaching to the test, and nothing else.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    If the system works as you describe, then it's fantastic - state provided standards ensure a minimum level of education, while still allowing some students to receive a superior level of education. Perhaps the rest of the country can learn something from Kentucky.
    - pantaloons 15y ago
      Did you read what he said? The bad teachers just "teach the test", the good teachers are far better off without state provided standards and equal outcome mandates rendering the entire exercise pointless.
      - yummyfajitas 15y ago
        The bad teachers just "teach the test"... No, he said the lazy teachers "teach the test", i.e. strive to make sure their students meet minimum standards. A system which makes sure even lazy workers perform adequately is a good system. ...the good teachers are far better off without state provided standards... No, he said the good teachers are just as well off - they modify the standard lesson plans and are only penalized if their students do poorly.
        pantaloons 15y ago
        I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse. The lazy workers are not performing adequately under the system, they are gaming it by focusing only on monitored metrics. This has real consequences for good teachers, who have to justify what they are trying to teach to a principal who only cares that school funding will be cut unless standardized test scores improve.
        yummyfajitas 15y ago
        As long as the monitored metrics are appropriate measures of what the school is trying to teach, there is nothing wrong with optimizing them. If the metrics are insufficient, then the problem is the metrics, not the attempt to maximize them. Since neither you nor imroot actually criticized the metrics, I see no reason to believe they do a bad job of measuring performance.
linuxminter 15y ago
> my wife is a K-12 Special Ed teacher The only things they're creating are funny noises ...
- imroot 15y ago
  Actually, in the district where my wife works, both gifted kids as well as children who have emotional and behavioral disorders are placed in the "Special Education" department. She does half a day doing "Pull-Out" special ed, where she'll pull the EBD children into a corner of their existing classroom to work on things, then another half day doing the same type of pull-out work with gifted kids.
  - linuxminter 15y ago
    > gifted kids. I'd love one of those badass electric wheelchairs as a gift myself.
  - william42 15y ago
    "both gifted kids as well as children who have emotional and behavioral disorders" The two groups are not mutually exclusive.

by imroot 15y ago

yummyfajitas 15y ago

There are two more groups of teachers you missed: The bad teachers modify the plans in a manner they think suits their students, but works worse than the provided materials. The terrible teachers completely make up their own system, which simply fails.

imroot 15y ago
The kids are tested every year at a state level that ensures that the student who lives in BFE, Kentucky (where I live) receives the same level of education as a student in a medium sized town and both students learn the same things that a student who lives in a 'major' area like Lexington or Louisville will learn. If a teacher isn't making the grades at a statewide level, they will get rid of her or cut funding to the school. Sadly, this means that many lazy teachers are just teaching to the test, and nothing else.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  If the system works as you describe, then it's fantastic - state provided standards ensure a minimum level of education, while still allowing some students to receive a superior level of education. Perhaps the rest of the country can learn something from Kentucky.
  - pantaloons 15y ago
    Did you read what he said? The bad teachers just "teach the test", the good teachers are far better off without state provided standards and equal outcome mandates rendering the entire exercise pointless.
    - yummyfajitas 15y ago
      The bad teachers just "teach the test"... No, he said the lazy teachers "teach the test", i.e. strive to make sure their students meet minimum standards. A system which makes sure even lazy workers perform adequately is a good system. ...the good teachers are far better off without state provided standards... No, he said the good teachers are just as well off - they modify the standard lesson plans and are only penalized if their students do poorly.
      - pantaloons 15y ago
        I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse. The lazy workers are not performing adequately under the system, they are gaming it by focusing only on monitored metrics. This has real consequences for good teachers, who have to justify what they are trying to teach to a principal who only cares that school funding will be cut unless standardized test scores improve.
        yummyfajitas 15y ago
        As long as the monitored metrics are appropriate measures of what the school is trying to teach, there is nothing wrong with optimizing them. If the metrics are insufficient, then the problem is the metrics, not the attempt to maximize them. Since neither you nor imroot actually criticized the metrics, I see no reason to believe they do a bad job of measuring performance.

linuxminter 15y ago

> my wife is a K-12 Special Ed teacher The only things they're creating are funny noises ...

imroot 15y ago
Actually, in the district where my wife works, both gifted kids as well as children who have emotional and behavioral disorders are placed in the "Special Education" department. She does half a day doing "Pull-Out" special ed, where she'll pull the EBD children into a corner of their existing classroom to work on things, then another half day doing the same type of pull-out work with gifted kids.
- linuxminter 15y ago
  > gifted kids. I'd love one of those badass electric wheelchairs as a gift myself.
- william42 15y ago
  "both gifted kids as well as children who have emotional and behavioral disorders" The two groups are not mutually exclusive.