4 ms·

Well in the base case of no debt forgiveness, the borrower suffers (though I think if it goes on long enough the exorbitant fees colleges are raking in would go

by PKop 4y ago

Well in the base case of no debt forgiveness, the borrower suffers (though I think if it goes on long enough the exorbitant fees colleges are raking in would go down too, solving the other side of the problem). In the case of bailout/forgiveness, there is the perception that every taxpayer...those who paid their debts for college or those that didn't even go to college, are paying for other's mistakes. So on one hand, the disinterest is on account of the issue not being seen as affecting some people while the bailout brings them into it. i.e. the anger is "now you're making it my problem, to fix your problem." In any case, to your point about punishing the colleges, I think is absolutely necessary. It's just that bailing out the debtors does not do that whatsoever, in fact in ingrains the moral hazard and keeps the colleges money train flowing (maybe, unless the government has some common sense to know they have to address the other end of the pipeline).

triceratops 4y ago
Maybe I'm more conspiracy theory minded. But it seems like there's a definite propaganda push to demonize student debt relief to distract everyone from the much bigger thievery that's happened to everyone. Even your response to my comment focused only on student debt relief, though I also asked about stock market relief. Every taxpayer - those who were still paying college loans, those who paid off their college loans, and those who never went to college - paid for that in higher inflation and asset prices. And unlike student debt relief, every non-taxpayer also paid for it!
- deleted 4y ago
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paulmd 4y ago
> those who paid their debts for college or those that didn't even go to college, are paying for other's mistakes that's how society works though. I didn't have kids and my taxes still go to help support childhood nutrition and education programs, etc. I don't get a choice about funding the military, etc. Societally these are things that we have determined are important and deserve funding. Everyone benefits from having a highly educated populace, not least because of the prolific lack of critical thinking the public displays in the political sphere. Want less "jewish space lasers" nonsense? Build a society with a good tertiary education pipeline that doesn't leave people horribly in debt, and increase the amount of the populace that has access. In many ways we are suffering the pain of that 80s/90s/00s neoliberal consensus on reduced education funding and privatization right now, this is what you get with 30 years of public secondary education being terrible and tertiary education being too expensive for a large portion of the population to access. But people really just think about me, me, me. MY taxes. And this is the society you get with that.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  >that's how society works though... Societally these are things that we have determined are important and deserve funding. I always found this to be a non-compelling answer. Society can mean any number of things and changes all the time. You can say the same thing about anything you want. Obviously "Society" had decided that individuals were responsible for the college debt that they took on until this last year, and then it changed. Never mind the fact that neither society at large or their elected representatives voted on it, just a single individual via executive action. If you strip away the appeal to "society", it is just an argument that more redistribution is better than less.

by PKop 4y ago

triceratops 4y ago

Maybe I'm more conspiracy theory minded. But it seems like there's a definite propaganda push to demonize student debt relief to distract everyone from the much bigger thievery that's happened to everyone. Even your response to my comment focused only on student debt relief, though I also asked about stock market relief. Every taxpayer - those who were still paying college loans, those who paid off their college loans, and those who never went to college - paid for that in higher inflation and asset prices. And unlike student debt relief, every non-taxpayer also paid for it!

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

paulmd 4y ago

> those who paid their debts for college or those that didn't even go to college, are paying for other's mistakes that's how society works though. I didn't have kids and my taxes still go to help support childhood nutrition and education programs, etc. I don't get a choice about funding the military, etc. Societally these are things that we have determined are important and deserve funding. Everyone benefits from having a highly educated populace, not least because of the prolific lack of critical thinking the public displays in the political sphere. Want less "jewish space lasers" nonsense? Build a society with a good tertiary education pipeline that doesn't leave people horribly in debt, and increase the amount of the populace that has access. In many ways we are suffering the pain of that 80s/90s/00s neoliberal consensus on reduced education funding and privatization right now, this is what you get with 30 years of public secondary education being terrible and tertiary education being too expensive for a large portion of the population to access. But people really just think about me, me, me. MY taxes. And this is the society you get with that.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
>that's how society works though... Societally these are things that we have determined are important and deserve funding. I always found this to be a non-compelling answer. Society can mean any number of things and changes all the time. You can say the same thing about anything you want. Obviously "Society" had decided that individuals were responsible for the college debt that they took on until this last year, and then it changed. Never mind the fact that neither society at large or their elected representatives voted on it, just a single individual via executive action. If you strip away the appeal to "society", it is just an argument that more redistribution is better than less.