5 ms·

My generation (I am 14) might need something hammered into their heads. Just drawing pictures or making mediocre music isn't gonna bring you a lot of success or

by _chu1 4y ago

My generation (I am 14) might need something hammered into their heads. Just drawing pictures or making mediocre music isn't gonna bring you a lot of success or money, either get better or find a way to monetize it. But doing something you don't care for and making it your life kind of makes you into a slave in a way.

fnovd 4y ago
The beauty and tragedy of our culture is the ability to leverage your future for a moonshot. It enables some real treasures to be discovered who can share their creations with the world, but each comes with the invisible cost of hundreds and thousands of failures who must "settle" for an average life. The success of the fortunate comes in no small part out of the investment of time, energy, and money from the failures. Young people are the worst at risk-assessment and at thinking through long-term costs, so most will happily alter the shape of their 99%-probability future if it improves the shape of their 1%-future. Dreams are powerful. You can do something you don't care for without making it your life.
- ricksunny 4y ago
  Twelve years ago I wrote a blog post on exactly that concept of people going after optional disproportionally large gains, where everyone else only see the survivorship bias: "I have to wonder then whether, over many eons, we've evolved the risk appetite required to explore options - i.e. in exploration of new food sources. However, while I would argue that such risk appetite is a superior trait for populations, it may be of net negative value for any particular individual singled out of a population. Because, while a roaring success may benefit that individual as well as the population around him, say, if (s)he found a new food source and also could control its public distribution for his/her benefit, it could also turn out that the exploration fails, and the individual perishes from exposure to whatever risky environment in which he placed himself in the first place. So, extrapolated over many generations of natural selection, this successively repeated scenario would breed individuals into risky-options-seeking automatons, who don't necessarily do so on the net likelihood of their own benefit. In a large population of such risky-options-seekers, some would inevitably succeed, improving the lot of the population, but those that failed would be crossed off the natural selection list, even though the same traits were being exercised in survivors and non-survivors alike. So when it comes to the value of risky-options on the individual basis, I would argue that the jury's still out, and that economic conservatism may be the individual's value maximizing choice after all . . ." https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2010/05/its-all-optional.html https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2010/05/its-all-optional.h... (There's context provided in the post). I probably have some interim updated thoughts about this twelve years on, but nothing conclusive.
  - fnovd 4y ago
    "Economic conservatism" is a value-maximizing choice in some ways, but there is also the value of risk-taking as self-actualization. "It's better to have loved and lost," as they say. There is value in being granted the freedom to fail, and even smart risks require a chance of failure; that's why banks and investors exist as they do. The difference is that a teenage individual is far worse at analyzing risk and the consequences of failure while having almost absolute authority over their own direction.
hindsightbias 4y ago
Do what allows you to afford your hobbies.
odessacubbage 4y ago
there are plenty of ways to earn an income doing both of those things, it just might not be 'for yourself' and it might not meet your expectation of 'a lot of money' but you can in fact be comfortable and earn a living. also most professionals in any field are by definition mediocre.
aschearer 4y ago
Hi Bob, I just want to say you're 14 -- don't worry about making money or success. There's plenty of time for that. And for coming to terms with the lack thereof. You're still a kid so get off Hacker News and go enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music. After all, unless your a child prodigy, what else could it be but mediocre? And that's more than enough! You won't get a second chance at being young, enjoy it while you can.
- _chu1 4y ago
  HN is interesting, no thank you
cercatrova 4y ago
Especially with generative AI evolving the way it is.
shagie 4y ago
I'm going to suggest a read of Find The Hard Work You're Willing To Do http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... (and a HN thread on that article form a bit ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 )
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
orev 4y ago
For Gen X, Fight Club explained it clearly: “We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact.“ In the TV/movie days, the dream of being a star was also there for many, but it was also so obviously out of reach that only the most daring and talented even attempted it. The difference with your generation is that everyone grew up with a movie studio in their pocket, and watching YouTube makes everyone think that being a star is a real possibility. For some it will work out, and talent may be discovered that otherwise wouldn’t have been, but that vast majority will have to come to terms with the cold really that work is actually work, same as everyone else. It is possible to find something you like that also pays well (most tech people here probably got here that way), but it does mean that you need to do the “hard things” early in life. Figuring out how Linux or Rust works is far less fun at the beginning, and you need to make a real effort to pull away from social media and video games to focus on things like that. I suspect it’s much harder today than it was 15 years ago.
- danielmarkbruce 4y ago
  Another reality is that virtually all of those stars are psychopathically hard workers, doing insane stuff behind the scenes to be who they are. My kid thinks Tom Brady is cool - he doesn't realize that Tom is a crazy dude who lives what would be a miserable life for 166 of the 168 hours every week. My kid just sees the touch downs and the people cheering and boy does it look fun.
  - DimitriPetrova 4y ago
    Tom Brady doesn't live a miserable life. He enjoys football and training/practicing. He's obsessed with it.
    - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
      I should have said: A life that most would find miserable. He may well find it satisfying and/or enjoyable. But it appears to be some kind of severe workaholism he has, and I'd speculate there is a 50% chance football owns him, not the other way around. It would be fun to be him for just one Sunday though right???
mmartinson 4y ago
Y'all should enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music without worrying about how that relates to success or money. Your career is important, but it's only one part of a good life. Things that are enjoyable but unproductive often have a way of building skills and character that can later help you in unexpected ways.
- annyeonghada 4y ago
  It may seem like 14 years old is "too soon" for being preoccupied about one's livelihood but, based on my experience, it is certainly healthier than waking up as a 27 y/o man and finding that the perception of your personality has been built on a lie, well intentioned as it may be. The common view we have of teenagers, as devoid of any agency, vastly underestimates them, not only that, it excludes them for the "res publica": the participation to the public life, exclusion that emerges then as lack of maturity. All the acting out and "teenage angst", it is my opinion, is actually a call for responsibility and participation, and it is by this participation, and the subsequent confrontation with the messy reality of life that make you realize your limitation and allows you to grow out of your childish dream if they are, indeed, childing. This dampening of expectations is not a negative thing: it's what has allowed civilization to go on: almost nobody wanted to be a farmer. Keeping the door open for the odd wind of luck while living a pragmatic, if not as colorful as one's fantasies, life is the more realistic and healthy way of organize one future while the "think about this later" is a recipe for regret and depression caused by the mismatch between what it is and what I wished it were.
- _gmax0 4y ago
  Given the state of the world, naturally there is greater pressure to survive, requiring one to focus on the short-term: securing capital or success, which in this context I interpret as 'fame' and perhaps implies capital. If this is the model under which we operate, indifference towards this pressure indicates to me that a person is either unwittingly/willfully ignorant, or has a value system that prioritizes internal satisfaction.
- zikduruqe 4y ago
  > Y'all should enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music without worrying about how that relates to success or money. Or whether you have to have health insurance. If having health insurance wasn't tied to employment, just think of the opportunities that could open up.

by _chu1 4y ago

fnovd 4y ago

The beauty and tragedy of our culture is the ability to leverage your future for a moonshot. It enables some real treasures to be discovered who can share their creations with the world, but each comes with the invisible cost of hundreds and thousands of failures who must "settle" for an average life. The success of the fortunate comes in no small part out of the investment of time, energy, and money from the failures. Young people are the worst at risk-assessment and at thinking through long-term costs, so most will happily alter the shape of their 99%-probability future if it improves the shape of their 1%-future. Dreams are powerful. You can do something you don't care for without making it your life.

ricksunny 4y ago
Twelve years ago I wrote a blog post on exactly that concept of people going after optional disproportionally large gains, where everyone else only see the survivorship bias: "I have to wonder then whether, over many eons, we've evolved the risk appetite required to explore options - i.e. in exploration of new food sources. However, while I would argue that such risk appetite is a superior trait for populations, it may be of net negative value for any particular individual singled out of a population. Because, while a roaring success may benefit that individual as well as the population around him, say, if (s)he found a new food source and also could control its public distribution for his/her benefit, it could also turn out that the exploration fails, and the individual perishes from exposure to whatever risky environment in which he placed himself in the first place. So, extrapolated over many generations of natural selection, this successively repeated scenario would breed individuals into risky-options-seeking automatons, who don't necessarily do so on the net likelihood of their own benefit. In a large population of such risky-options-seekers, some would inevitably succeed, improving the lot of the population, but those that failed would be crossed off the natural selection list, even though the same traits were being exercised in survivors and non-survivors alike. So when it comes to the value of risky-options on the individual basis, I would argue that the jury's still out, and that economic conservatism may be the individual's value maximizing choice after all . . ." https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2010/05/its-all-optional.html https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2010/05/its-all-optional.h... (There's context provided in the post). I probably have some interim updated thoughts about this twelve years on, but nothing conclusive.
- fnovd 4y ago
  "Economic conservatism" is a value-maximizing choice in some ways, but there is also the value of risk-taking as self-actualization. "It's better to have loved and lost," as they say. There is value in being granted the freedom to fail, and even smart risks require a chance of failure; that's why banks and investors exist as they do. The difference is that a teenage individual is far worse at analyzing risk and the consequences of failure while having almost absolute authority over their own direction.

hindsightbias 4y ago

Do what allows you to afford your hobbies.

odessacubbage 4y ago

there are plenty of ways to earn an income doing both of those things, it just might not be 'for yourself' and it might not meet your expectation of 'a lot of money' but you can in fact be comfortable and earn a living. also most professionals in any field are by definition mediocre.

aschearer 4y ago

Hi Bob, I just want to say you're 14 -- don't worry about making money or success. There's plenty of time for that. And for coming to terms with the lack thereof. You're still a kid so get off Hacker News and go enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music. After all, unless your a child prodigy, what else could it be but mediocre? And that's more than enough! You won't get a second chance at being young, enjoy it while you can.

_chu1 4y ago
HN is interesting, no thank you

cercatrova 4y ago

Especially with generative AI evolving the way it is.

shagie 4y ago

I'm going to suggest a read of Find The Hard Work You're Willing To Do http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... (and a HN thread on that article form a bit ago - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 )

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

orev 4y ago

For Gen X, Fight Club explained it clearly: “We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact.“ In the TV/movie days, the dream of being a star was also there for many, but it was also so obviously out of reach that only the most daring and talented even attempted it. The difference with your generation is that everyone grew up with a movie studio in their pocket, and watching YouTube makes everyone think that being a star is a real possibility. For some it will work out, and talent may be discovered that otherwise wouldn’t have been, but that vast majority will have to come to terms with the cold really that work is actually work, same as everyone else. It is possible to find something you like that also pays well (most tech people here probably got here that way), but it does mean that you need to do the “hard things” early in life. Figuring out how Linux or Rust works is far less fun at the beginning, and you need to make a real effort to pull away from social media and video games to focus on things like that. I suspect it’s much harder today than it was 15 years ago.

danielmarkbruce 4y ago
Another reality is that virtually all of those stars are psychopathically hard workers, doing insane stuff behind the scenes to be who they are. My kid thinks Tom Brady is cool - he doesn't realize that Tom is a crazy dude who lives what would be a miserable life for 166 of the 168 hours every week. My kid just sees the touch downs and the people cheering and boy does it look fun.
- DimitriPetrova 4y ago
  Tom Brady doesn't live a miserable life. He enjoys football and training/practicing. He's obsessed with it.
  - danielmarkbruce 4y ago
    I should have said: A life that most would find miserable. He may well find it satisfying and/or enjoyable. But it appears to be some kind of severe workaholism he has, and I'd speculate there is a 50% chance football owns him, not the other way around. It would be fun to be him for just one Sunday though right???

mmartinson 4y ago

Y'all should enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music without worrying about how that relates to success or money. Your career is important, but it's only one part of a good life. Things that are enjoyable but unproductive often have a way of building skills and character that can later help you in unexpected ways.

annyeonghada 4y ago
It may seem like 14 years old is "too soon" for being preoccupied about one's livelihood but, based on my experience, it is certainly healthier than waking up as a 27 y/o man and finding that the perception of your personality has been built on a lie, well intentioned as it may be. The common view we have of teenagers, as devoid of any agency, vastly underestimates them, not only that, it excludes them for the "res publica": the participation to the public life, exclusion that emerges then as lack of maturity. All the acting out and "teenage angst", it is my opinion, is actually a call for responsibility and participation, and it is by this participation, and the subsequent confrontation with the messy reality of life that make you realize your limitation and allows you to grow out of your childish dream if they are, indeed, childing. This dampening of expectations is not a negative thing: it's what has allowed civilization to go on: almost nobody wanted to be a farmer. Keeping the door open for the odd wind of luck while living a pragmatic, if not as colorful as one's fantasies, life is the more realistic and healthy way of organize one future while the "think about this later" is a recipe for regret and depression caused by the mismatch between what it is and what I wished it were.
_gmax0 4y ago
Given the state of the world, naturally there is greater pressure to survive, requiring one to focus on the short-term: securing capital or success, which in this context I interpret as 'fame' and perhaps implies capital. If this is the model under which we operate, indifference towards this pressure indicates to me that a person is either unwittingly/willfully ignorant, or has a value system that prioritizes internal satisfaction.
zikduruqe 4y ago
> Y'all should enjoy drawing pictures and making mediocre music without worrying about how that relates to success or money. Or whether you have to have health insurance. If having health insurance wasn't tied to employment, just think of the opportunities that could open up.