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At what point do you think personal responsibility kicks in? Everyone has the option to eat healthy - the messaging on healthy diets is everywhere. Everyone h

At what point do you think personal responsibility kicks in? Everyone has the option to eat healthy - the messaging on healthy diets is everywhere. Everyone has the option to study - Khan Academy is better than most private school instruction. It is free. Broadband is subsidized or free for poor families. Food is subsidized for poor families. At what point is it a failure of the person and not the system?

gamechangr 4y ago
I used to think this, but it's so broken as you apply it. I aslo didnt realize the arrogance that is embedded in it as well as the role that chance played in my good financial position. My best friend is a chemical engineer. He's studied 2 or 3 magnitudes harder than me, but the last 20 years didn't favor Chemical Engineers as much as software engineers. He's done well or plenty good, but to reduce the question of economics to a sense of personal responsibility as if those who are not financially stable -- deserve it, because they are lazy or not aware -- is a gross understatement and exactly why there is a such division in this country.
autoexec 4y ago
> Everyone has the option to eat healthy Yet some people live in food deserts and can't readily access reasonably priced healthy foods. 19 million Americans have limited access to a proper store (https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts) and unhealthy foods cost poor Americans less than healthy foods in both money and (more importantly) time. > Broadband is subsidized or free for poor families. and yet during the pandemic school districts had to drive school buses acting as hotspots into poor communities in order to help the ~15 million public school students who had zero internet access but had to participate in remote learning. (https://all4ed.org/publication/homeworkgap/ https://all4ed.org/publication/homeworkgap/) Millions more have some form of internet access, but don't have internet speeds or devices capable enough for online learning. In Alcona county for example 60% of the students don't have reliable internet access at home. The system is failing a whole lot of people. That doesn't absolve people from personal responsibility but it's wrong to pretend very real problems don't exist and influence people's actions and outcomes.
pyuser583 4y ago
Systematic issues are more important for an 18 year old than a 30 year old. An 18 year old has spent their life eating what they’re given, exercising when they’re told, and having to get permission to use the bathroom.
- testfoobar 4y ago
  This logic would then suggest that the parents are responsible. Why are they not more deliberate about the health, education and general welfare of their under 18 children?
  - watwut 4y ago
    So that they can send them to be the army cooks tho? The actual issue at hand seem to he that those kids have better opportunities.
  - pyuser583 4y ago
    Why parents specifically? Children spend more time in school than with their parents.
longtimelistnr 4y ago
How can it be personal responsibility when there’s enough of these people to create an entirely new boot camp model? If it always was personal responsibility then why is the system changing? Personal responsibility cannot be blamed when this country has so much poverty and lacking in opportunity for young poor children. The costs of eating healthy are high. 2 years online schooling for most kids coming out of high school has lowered overall comprehension levels. Parents working long hours put in little effort to see that their child is active, healthy, and studious. No role models, no healthy lifestyles, no belief in a future. The lack of physical activity is down to the parents. Generation X raised their kids with strict rules and a high safety concern. Can’t play outside when you’re not allowed to cross streets or climb trees.
- testfoobar 4y ago
  I agree with you: it is down to the parents. It is the personal responsibility of the parents to use all resources available to help their kids.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    And when "all your resources" is $35k a year because school is stupidly overpriced, and most of that has to go to rent because the country refuses to build affordable housing and you have 2 young kids because your state voted that sex ed wasn't allowed to say anything other than "sex is a sin and you should stay a virgin" which is laughably stupid?
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    What if the parents are overworked and underpaid, resulting in limited time and material resources - is it still an issue of "personal responsibility"?
phone8675309 4y ago
> Everyone has the option to eat healthy - the messaging on healthy diets is everywhere. Healthy foods have been hit by inflation, and if you grew up on food stamps you may never have had access to the right amount of healthy food to make it through childhood with a decent diet.
- testfoobar 4y ago
  Healthy food is surprisingly cheap. Inflation is a recent phenomenon and is not responsible for the past generation of unhealthy diets. The Government has excellent resources on meal planning and budgeting on SNAP: https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-education-materials/meal-planning-shopping-and-budgeting https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-ed... https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-education-materials/eat-right-when-moneys-tight https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-ed...
  - phone8675309 4y ago
    Having good education resources doesn't make up for living in a food desert, having a parent that's working two or three jobs to make rent and doesn't have time to cook, having neglectful or abusive parents, or having parents that don't know that these resources exist and even if they do can't access or understand them. I agree that these resources exist, but actually being able to practically implement them is different than them existing. The typical person on HN is probably educated enough and is in a position in life where these things aren't problems as adults, but that's not going to help a kid that is still living with parents or in a situation that they do not control.

gamechangr 4y ago

I used to think this, but it's so broken as you apply it. I aslo didnt realize the arrogance that is embedded in it as well as the role that chance played in my good financial position. My best friend is a chemical engineer. He's studied 2 or 3 magnitudes harder than me, but the last 20 years didn't favor Chemical Engineers as much as software engineers. He's done well or plenty good, but to reduce the question of economics to a sense of personal responsibility as if those who are not financially stable -- deserve it, because they are lazy or not aware -- is a gross understatement and exactly why there is a such division in this country.

autoexec 4y ago

> Everyone has the option to eat healthy Yet some people live in food deserts and can't readily access reasonably priced healthy foods. 19 million Americans have limited access to a proper store (https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts https://www.aecf.org/blog/exploring-americas-food-deserts) and unhealthy foods cost poor Americans less than healthy foods in both money and (more importantly) time. > Broadband is subsidized or free for poor families. and yet during the pandemic school districts had to drive school buses acting as hotspots into poor communities in order to help the ~15 million public school students who had zero internet access but had to participate in remote learning. (https://all4ed.org/publication/homeworkgap/ https://all4ed.org/publication/homeworkgap/) Millions more have some form of internet access, but don't have internet speeds or devices capable enough for online learning. In Alcona county for example 60% of the students don't have reliable internet access at home. The system is failing a whole lot of people. That doesn't absolve people from personal responsibility but it's wrong to pretend very real problems don't exist and influence people's actions and outcomes.

pyuser583 4y ago

Systematic issues are more important for an 18 year old than a 30 year old. An 18 year old has spent their life eating what they’re given, exercising when they’re told, and having to get permission to use the bathroom.

testfoobar 4y ago
This logic would then suggest that the parents are responsible. Why are they not more deliberate about the health, education and general welfare of their under 18 children?
- watwut 4y ago
  So that they can send them to be the army cooks tho? The actual issue at hand seem to he that those kids have better opportunities.
- pyuser583 4y ago
  Why parents specifically? Children spend more time in school than with their parents.

longtimelistnr 4y ago

How can it be personal responsibility when there’s enough of these people to create an entirely new boot camp model? If it always was personal responsibility then why is the system changing? Personal responsibility cannot be blamed when this country has so much poverty and lacking in opportunity for young poor children. The costs of eating healthy are high. 2 years online schooling for most kids coming out of high school has lowered overall comprehension levels. Parents working long hours put in little effort to see that their child is active, healthy, and studious. No role models, no healthy lifestyles, no belief in a future. The lack of physical activity is down to the parents. Generation X raised their kids with strict rules and a high safety concern. Can’t play outside when you’re not allowed to cross streets or climb trees.

testfoobar 4y ago
I agree with you: it is down to the parents. It is the personal responsibility of the parents to use all resources available to help their kids.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  And when "all your resources" is $35k a year because school is stupidly overpriced, and most of that has to go to rent because the country refuses to build affordable housing and you have 2 young kids because your state voted that sex ed wasn't allowed to say anything other than "sex is a sin and you should stay a virgin" which is laughably stupid?
- sangnoir 4y ago
  What if the parents are overworked and underpaid, resulting in limited time and material resources - is it still an issue of "personal responsibility"?

phone8675309 4y ago

> Everyone has the option to eat healthy - the messaging on healthy diets is everywhere. Healthy foods have been hit by inflation, and if you grew up on food stamps you may never have had access to the right amount of healthy food to make it through childhood with a decent diet.

testfoobar 4y ago
Healthy food is surprisingly cheap. Inflation is a recent phenomenon and is not responsible for the past generation of unhealthy diets. The Government has excellent resources on meal planning and budgeting on SNAP: https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-education-materials/meal-planning-shopping-and-budgeting https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-ed... https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-education-materials/eat-right-when-moneys-tight https://snaped.fns.usda.gov/nutrition-education/nutrition-ed...
- phone8675309 4y ago
  Having good education resources doesn't make up for living in a food desert, having a parent that's working two or three jobs to make rent and doesn't have time to cook, having neglectful or abusive parents, or having parents that don't know that these resources exist and even if they do can't access or understand them. I agree that these resources exist, but actually being able to practically implement them is different than them existing. The typical person on HN is probably educated enough and is in a position in life where these things aren't problems as adults, but that's not going to help a kid that is still living with parents or in a situation that they do not control.