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The 24a2 engine seems like it adds unnecessary limitations. Just using something like Raylib https://www.raylib.com/ https://www.raylib.com/ would allow you to

The 24a2 engine seems like it adds unnecessary limitations. Just using something like Raylib https://www.raylib.com/ https://www.raylib.com/ would allow you to create the same simple game just as easily while also allowing you to continue learning and developing more complex games afterward.

carl_dr 4y ago
Having read https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/wiki https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/wiki, it seems entirely likely it will take longer to get the environment setup than OP spent on his game in total.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  Ok but where can the OP go from here with 24a2? They can make a few more dot games and maybe share them but they won't be able to improve upon the initial design much. Eventually they'll have to make the jump to something that can handle rendering images, sound, building an executable etc. I guess if your goal is to just make a game and then be done with it 24a2 is fine but if you wanted to progress further and make games that people will play you'd be stuck.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    I don't understand this line of reasoning. This wasn't a suitable technology to make this game in because it's only good for this game and a few others? So it was good for this game?
    - throwaway4aday 4y ago
      The point I was trying to make is that doing game development in a toy framework like this is only good for making trivial games like the one in the article. That may be fine in the author's case since he states that he doesn't have any interest in sound or graphics (or at least feels they are a hindrance to his purpose) and just wanted to try making a game. I didn't really mean to address my comment to the author, it was moreso speaking to the audience of the post and the hypothetical reader who may want to do more than what the author did. Basically I meant to say that using such a framework is a bad starting point for someone who wants to progress in game development. If the author doesn't want to do that, that's great, job done, story over, they can move on with their life.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        You haven't explained why it's a bad starting point, though. What does making some initial games in this way prevent you from doing in the future?
dan-g 4y ago
As the site for the framework (https://24a2.routley.io/ https://24a2.routley.io/) notes, constraints can lead to creative thinking. As you note, there are plenty of non-constrained options. It reminds me of the OP-1 synthesizer (https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1 https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1), which also has a fair number of constraints but people manage to do a lot of interesting things with it (e.g., Red Means Recording https://youtube.com/c/RedMeansRecording https://youtube.com/c/RedMeansRecording)
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  True but I still think that too many constraints can hinder creativity, the worst constraint of all is having no options and so no output. I could create something similar that only lets you change the color of 1 dot and only allows you to use 1 key on the keyboard. Those are some mighty constraints and I'm sure you could come up with a few somewhat entertaining games that could be played within those bounds but your creativity would be severely limited by it. A framework like Raylib has its own set of constraints but it provides you with an ample toolkit from which you can create many interesting things. At the same time it doesn't provide you with so much that it becomes overwhelming to learn. It sits in that sweet spot between too simple and too complicated that allows for maximum creativity.
  - dan-g 4y ago
    I understand your point, but using one tool doesn’t preclude you from ever using another tool. For example, you can sketch something in pencil before you ink it; similarly, you can use a simpler constrained framework to prototype a game before you elaborate on it.

carl_dr 4y ago

Having read https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/wiki https://github.com/raysan5/raylib/wiki, it seems entirely likely it will take longer to get the environment setup than OP spent on his game in total.

throwaway4aday 4y ago
Ok but where can the OP go from here with 24a2? They can make a few more dot games and maybe share them but they won't be able to improve upon the initial design much. Eventually they'll have to make the jump to something that can handle rendering images, sound, building an executable etc. I guess if your goal is to just make a game and then be done with it 24a2 is fine but if you wanted to progress further and make games that people will play you'd be stuck.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  I don't understand this line of reasoning. This wasn't a suitable technology to make this game in because it's only good for this game and a few others? So it was good for this game?
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    The point I was trying to make is that doing game development in a toy framework like this is only good for making trivial games like the one in the article. That may be fine in the author's case since he states that he doesn't have any interest in sound or graphics (or at least feels they are a hindrance to his purpose) and just wanted to try making a game. I didn't really mean to address my comment to the author, it was moreso speaking to the audience of the post and the hypothetical reader who may want to do more than what the author did. Basically I meant to say that using such a framework is a bad starting point for someone who wants to progress in game development. If the author doesn't want to do that, that's great, job done, story over, they can move on with their life.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      You haven't explained why it's a bad starting point, though. What does making some initial games in this way prevent you from doing in the future?

dan-g 4y ago

As the site for the framework (https://24a2.routley.io/ https://24a2.routley.io/) notes, constraints can lead to creative thinking. As you note, there are plenty of non-constrained options. It reminds me of the OP-1 synthesizer (https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1 https://teenage.engineering/products/op-1), which also has a fair number of constraints but people manage to do a lot of interesting things with it (e.g., Red Means Recording https://youtube.com/c/RedMeansRecording https://youtube.com/c/RedMeansRecording)

throwaway4aday 4y ago
True but I still think that too many constraints can hinder creativity, the worst constraint of all is having no options and so no output. I could create something similar that only lets you change the color of 1 dot and only allows you to use 1 key on the keyboard. Those are some mighty constraints and I'm sure you could come up with a few somewhat entertaining games that could be played within those bounds but your creativity would be severely limited by it. A framework like Raylib has its own set of constraints but it provides you with an ample toolkit from which you can create many interesting things. At the same time it doesn't provide you with so much that it becomes overwhelming to learn. It sits in that sweet spot between too simple and too complicated that allows for maximum creativity.
- dan-g 4y ago
  I understand your point, but using one tool doesn’t preclude you from ever using another tool. For example, you can sketch something in pencil before you ink it; similarly, you can use a simpler constrained framework to prototype a game before you elaborate on it.