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I think explainability is overrated (to use a Trumpian expression) & this fixation with coming up with explanations for inferences is a red herring. We cannot e

I think explainability is overrated (to use a Trumpian expression) & this fixation with coming up with explanations for inferences is a red herring. We cannot explain our own thoughts and actions and tend to ascribe logic & reason to many of our own actions, but it's almost always system-1 driven, for the most part. Correcting for edge-cases and unknown-unknowns is where we should focus our efforts methinks.

endorphinbomber 4y ago
You can't explain your own thoughts and actions??? I'm sorry, but that's part of makes a valuable team mate or partner. This is not fundamentally human, this is trained behaviour. I am very well capable of expressing my thougts and explaining actions resulting from these thoughts.
- kuramitropolis 4y ago
  Can you explain why you had a thought, however? And how many levels deep? Only as many as someone cares to ask, I'd wager. You have developed the capability of explaining your actions as resulting from your thoughts, because there is someone on the other side who is ready to accept and evaluate your explanations. Others have no such affordance, so their brains get trained in prejudices and superstitions indead. Even if an explanation of an action is given in good faith and accepted by the recipient, it can still be factually incorrect.
mdp2021 4y ago
A very critical core human activity is that of reflection. You should explain the point about «correcting for edge-cases and unknown-unknowns», which may not be clear.
- bobosha 4y ago
  Thanks, but enough neuroscience studies have shown that our decisions are for the most part, on autopilot, qv: Kahneman, Tversky et al. All our "explanations" are post-hoc rationalization i.e. reality is the narrative we tell ourselves. >You should explain the point about «correcting for edge-cases and unknown-unknowns», which may not be clear. Our learning is also for the most part Hebbian, from childhood through adulthood. For example, a DUI might force one to rethink their transport after a night-out. Right now, some of the "shocking" predictions have a child-like brutal honesty about them. Just as a child is coached not to call that bad aunty "fatty", an AI can thus be trained to conform to societal norms. tl;dr: i am advocating for a realtime continuous learning system
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    Let us take the «continuous learning system» that is «coached»: very hopefully, it will not be literally «to conform to societal norms»¹, but to understand why it is appropriate or inappropriate to «call [the] aunty» one way or another. The «continuous learning system» is either heuristic - an investigator - or an "artificial fool", of dubious utility (what is the use of something that "just has an opinion"). That poses an entity that reasons in a foundational context: why this and that. If Kahneman - which I unfortunately have not yet had the time to read, though I was able to taste a bit of his interview by Lex Fridman - supposed that something "ineffable" oriented Einstein towards determinism and Bohr to more open stances, it is for their scientific work, valid on foundational grounds, that we remember them - not for their leanings. -- ¹Already a bit contradictory, if in school they teach you critical thought, as they did here since primary.

endorphinbomber 4y ago

You can't explain your own thoughts and actions??? I'm sorry, but that's part of makes a valuable team mate or partner. This is not fundamentally human, this is trained behaviour. I am very well capable of expressing my thougts and explaining actions resulting from these thoughts.

kuramitropolis 4y ago
Can you explain why you had a thought, however? And how many levels deep? Only as many as someone cares to ask, I'd wager. You have developed the capability of explaining your actions as resulting from your thoughts, because there is someone on the other side who is ready to accept and evaluate your explanations. Others have no such affordance, so their brains get trained in prejudices and superstitions indead. Even if an explanation of an action is given in good faith and accepted by the recipient, it can still be factually incorrect.

mdp2021 4y ago

A very critical core human activity is that of reflection. You should explain the point about «correcting for edge-cases and unknown-unknowns», which may not be clear.

bobosha 4y ago
Thanks, but enough neuroscience studies have shown that our decisions are for the most part, on autopilot, qv: Kahneman, Tversky et al. All our "explanations" are post-hoc rationalization i.e. reality is the narrative we tell ourselves. >You should explain the point about «correcting for edge-cases and unknown-unknowns», which may not be clear. Our learning is also for the most part Hebbian, from childhood through adulthood. For example, a DUI might force one to rethink their transport after a night-out. Right now, some of the "shocking" predictions have a child-like brutal honesty about them. Just as a child is coached not to call that bad aunty "fatty", an AI can thus be trained to conform to societal norms. tl;dr: i am advocating for a realtime continuous learning system
- mdp2021 4y ago
  Let us take the «continuous learning system» that is «coached»: very hopefully, it will not be literally «to conform to societal norms»¹, but to understand why it is appropriate or inappropriate to «call [the] aunty» one way or another. The «continuous learning system» is either heuristic - an investigator - or an "artificial fool", of dubious utility (what is the use of something that "just has an opinion"). That poses an entity that reasons in a foundational context: why this and that. If Kahneman - which I unfortunately have not yet had the time to read, though I was able to taste a bit of his interview by Lex Fridman - supposed that something "ineffable" oriented Einstein towards determinism and Bohr to more open stances, it is for their scientific work, valid on foundational grounds, that we remember them - not for their leanings. -- ¹Already a bit contradictory, if in school they teach you critical thought, as they did here since primary.