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> It's simply zero covid working better than the best vaccines which will still lead to millions of deaths at PRC scale and with PRC's relatively lower per capi

> It's simply zero covid working better than the best vaccines which will still lead to millions of deaths at PRC scale and with PRC's relatively lower per capita medical infra. If China was able to logistically handle zero covid, I would be more inclined to agree with you. However, each time a city in China has been locked down, it has been a logistical disaster that almost always resulted in: - extremely poor quarantine zones in unsanitary conditions (which defeats the purpose of being free of disease). This includes many people who were lucky enough to quarantine in their own homes as even their pets are not allowed to leave, they need to dedicate spaces in their home for their animals to defecate. - lack of basic necessities; food, heating, water leakage, insect problems, or even lacking a proper indoor building in some cases. - a lack of professionalism, discipline, or even respect of human decency among the staff. Attaching spikes to entrances to keep people from leaving by force, refusing to allow elderly access to medical care, threatening people with weapons, security bao'ans going on China social media laughing about all the new found power and control they have over the populace, beating people in a show of their power trips. - questionable policies, such as requiring everyone in a community to come together, line up, for a covid test, which increases the likelihood of getting covid, rather than go door to door. This has lead to more than just inconveniences, it's lead to death. Which is supposedly the very thing this is all supposed to avoid. The Chinese state has proven by experience, repeatedly, that it cannot logistically handle these strict policies. It is a failure of the zero covid policy and a failure of the Chinese Communist Party to administer its State in a competent manner.

dirtyid 4y ago
> able to logistically handle zero covid Seeing as we are almost 12+ months post delta/omicron and local outbreaks have consistently been contained to prevent uncontrolled geometric spread, yes PRC is logistically handling zero covid. Over many lock downs, of various sizes, across different regions, to keep spread at so-far managable levels. > logistical disaster / always resulted in / it's lead to death Of course, it's not a smooth 5star process, shutting down urban regions with millions fundmentally can't be. That's not a failure of policy, but acceptable baseline for competent epidemiologic management, competence being it contains spread and saves significantly more lives than it takes. Some pain/death is inevitable operating on the scale of hundreds of millions. The "very thing it's suppose to avoid" is millions of deaths due to uncontrolled spread and overwhelmed medical system, not a hundreds/thousands of incidental deaths because someone peoeple starved/suicided/bus crashed. Same with increasing chance of local spread to prevent higher order spread. Like these aren't exquistily managed bespoke interventions, they're coarse but by now tested methods that can be implemented in a snap. Of course it's not clean, but it's better than health system collapsing. The cost benefit analysis of maintaining zero covid, when one can, and PRC can, is obvious. So obvious that I'd argue they're politically trapped by repeated demonstrating ability to logistically execute zero covid.

dirtyid 4y ago

> able to logistically handle zero covid Seeing as we are almost 12+ months post delta/omicron and local outbreaks have consistently been contained to prevent uncontrolled geometric spread, yes PRC is logistically handling zero covid. Over many lock downs, of various sizes, across different regions, to keep spread at so-far managable levels. > logistical disaster / always resulted in / it's lead to death Of course, it's not a smooth 5star process, shutting down urban regions with millions fundmentally can't be. That's not a failure of policy, but acceptable baseline for competent epidemiologic management, competence being it contains spread and saves significantly more lives than it takes. Some pain/death is inevitable operating on the scale of hundreds of millions. The "very thing it's suppose to avoid" is millions of deaths due to uncontrolled spread and overwhelmed medical system, not a hundreds/thousands of incidental deaths because someone peoeple starved/suicided/bus crashed. Same with increasing chance of local spread to prevent higher order spread. Like these aren't exquistily managed bespoke interventions, they're coarse but by now tested methods that can be implemented in a snap. Of course it's not clean, but it's better than health system collapsing. The cost benefit analysis of maintaining zero covid, when one can, and PRC can, is obvious. So obvious that I'd argue they're politically trapped by repeated demonstrating ability to logistically execute zero covid.