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systemd ist not an init system and it never was intended to be "just" an init system; from the very start was conceived a system services management layer. htt

by esarbe 4y ago

systemd ist not an init system and it never was intended to be "just" an init system; from the very start was conceived a system services management layer. https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html https://0pointer.de/blog/projects/systemd.html If there's an expansion of scope in the systemd project, that's because these use-cases were not sufficiently covered in the past. And while I wish you good luck with s6; how do you intend to replace all the functionality that systemd already delivers? Let's pick an example; KDE and Gnome used to write their own session management software, to make sure certain applications and services that the desktop needs (like; e.g. accessibility tools). This is nowadays handled by systemd, since it - as a system services management layer - already implements all the required functionality. So instead of three half-backed systems (one by KDE, one by Gnome, one for the system, all incompatible and unable to talk to each other) we have one good implementation. User session are also now handled in systemd - one less component to be developed by the "Desktops" - yay! Where you see feature creep I see consolidation. A consolidation that - in my opinion - is painfully necessary.

effie 4y ago
> these use-cases were not sufficiently covered in the past. Many systems do not have those use cases. Everybody needs an init system, so that's where systemd could have been the fix to the deficiencies of sysvinit (as marketed). Instead, it merely kind of works as init, sometimes with random errors and disrespecting the keyboard input when things go wrong. And then instead of fixing and polishing that experience, developers expanded into million other directions, including DNS, container management and what not. Systemd is becoming a bad OS like Windows is. > User session are also now handled in systemd - one less component to be developed by the "Desktops" - yay! But systemd is used on servers too, and the user sessions and broken behaviour it introduces are a needless pain best to be disabled there. User sessions and related is really something Desktops should be handling, since it only makes sense on Desktops.
- esarbe 4y ago
  > Instead, it merely kind of works as init, sometimes with random errors and disrespecting the keyboard input when things go wrong. I have never experienced that kind of errors you describe and I use Linux+GNU on my private workstations, on my professional workstations, on various servers and some NAS devices. Is there a bug report that documents these failures? > Systemd is becoming a bad OS like Windows is. Systemd is a system management layer, the operating system is GNU+Linux. > User sessions and related is really something Desktops should be handling, since it only makes sense on Desktops. You can disable it, if for some reason you get errors. Never had issues with user sessions on servers either.
  - effie 4y ago
    > I have never experienced Good for you. > Is there a bug report that documents these failures? I didn't try to document these rare random events. I've learned to expect them, as part of the systemd feature. But there are such reports, e.g. https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/20920 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/20920

by esarbe 4y ago

effie 4y ago

> these use-cases were not sufficiently covered in the past. Many systems do not have those use cases. Everybody needs an init system, so that's where systemd could have been the fix to the deficiencies of sysvinit (as marketed). Instead, it merely kind of works as init, sometimes with random errors and disrespecting the keyboard input when things go wrong. And then instead of fixing and polishing that experience, developers expanded into million other directions, including DNS, container management and what not. Systemd is becoming a bad OS like Windows is. > User session are also now handled in systemd - one less component to be developed by the "Desktops" - yay! But systemd is used on servers too, and the user sessions and broken behaviour it introduces are a needless pain best to be disabled there. User sessions and related is really something Desktops should be handling, since it only makes sense on Desktops.

esarbe 4y ago
> Instead, it merely kind of works as init, sometimes with random errors and disrespecting the keyboard input when things go wrong. I have never experienced that kind of errors you describe and I use Linux+GNU on my private workstations, on my professional workstations, on various servers and some NAS devices. Is there a bug report that documents these failures? > Systemd is becoming a bad OS like Windows is. Systemd is a system management layer, the operating system is GNU+Linux. > User sessions and related is really something Desktops should be handling, since it only makes sense on Desktops. You can disable it, if for some reason you get errors. Never had issues with user sessions on servers either.
- effie 4y ago
  > I have never experienced Good for you. > Is there a bug report that documents these failures? I didn't try to document these rare random events. I've learned to expect them, as part of the systemd feature. But there are such reports, e.g. https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/20920 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/20920