3 ms·

Here in the Netherlands, it may not be policy, but a large number of people just don't care anymore. People with symptoms like coughing and changing tone of voi

Here in the Netherlands, it may not be policy, but a large number of people just don't care anymore. People with symptoms like coughing and changing tone of voice are still going to school, work and parties. No one wears masks except for some tourists or other foreigners. When planning an event, not a single moment is thought about COVID.

smcl 4y ago
Broadly similar in CZ - masks aren't anywhere now and I don't anticipate anyone wearing them unless mandated. Even then, I can see a lot of resistance unless they send the police to into public transport and shops to dish out some severe on-the-spot fines. There are also a lot of people I know who have the "oh I have had this weird cough for days, and I feel a bit off ... but it's not covid I did a home test!" followed a few days later with "ok I have covid". It's a little frustrating, because a bit of painless extra caution now could help avoid something stronger down the line :-/
ummonk 4y ago
I wish we (in my case America, but this applies everywhere outside some parts of East Asia really) could just go back to normal but have normal include not going outside, or at least wearing a mask and frequently washing hands when you get the cold...
mettamage 4y ago
I don't care anymore because I've eyeballed that on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) [1], and it doesn't seem to be changing. That's less than flu season (which is more like 3000 to 5000 per year). I don't have sources for the flu. I read it somewhere, I might be underestimating or overestimating a bit. And of course, all those deaths are horrible, and I feel that pain when I contemplate that for a second. But in my day to day life, I don't see why I'd need to change my behavior. I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, but IMO I feel like I need to choose the lesser between two evils which is: 1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide? 2. Do I lock myself down for 5 years, and fight preventing reduced long Covid and 0.15% deaths population wide? The choices are written down simplified. If you think that there's hindsight bias, there's some but a lot less than you think. I was 2 to 3 weeks ahead of the Dutch government at any point in time. I've been able to protect all the people I care about. For example, my grandparents/parents never caught Covid when there was no vaccine (I was tracking Covid since mid Feb 2022 as a potential threat and constantly ran the probabilities). I'm not even sure if my grandparents ever caught it. [1] coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl
- dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
  >I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, Personal observation ( which contracts established 'science' ). There were always some 'long' aspects of all diseases including for colds/coughs/flu/tuberculosis etc. Nothing special with 'covid'.
- donkeyd 4y ago
  > I don't have sources for the flu. Just look at the RIVM site. It's probably higher than you specified, closer to 6-7k average per year, with massive differences. > on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) This is a bit of a dishonest comparison. You're looking at the numbers from before the expected peak, since it's still incredibly warm in the Netherlands right now and peaks seem to happen when it gets colder. So it'll probably be closer to 4000 per year. While that still seems less than the flu, it's important to realize that the most vulnerable people are now getting vaccinated multiple times a year for covid. A lot of people who never got a flu shot are also being vaccinated. Then there's the fact that a lot of people are still distancing more than they used to. There's more work from home, many people still stay home when they have covid, while in the past, many people prided themselves for going to work with the flu. It's really hard to compare historic flu statistics with current covid statistics, because the way we handle covid is still very different from how we used to handle the flu. Therefore your conclusion is misguided. Now I really don't care whether you care about covid, but at lease the interpretation of the statistics should be correct and you missed a ton of details. [1] https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland
  - mettamage 4y ago
    Fair enough, thanks :)
- Izkata 4y ago
  > 1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide? It was never as high as 2% in the first place. The numbers were inflated because we didn't have enough tests to go around, so only the people who we were already pretty sure were infected were tested.

smcl 4y ago

Broadly similar in CZ - masks aren't anywhere now and I don't anticipate anyone wearing them unless mandated. Even then, I can see a lot of resistance unless they send the police to into public transport and shops to dish out some severe on-the-spot fines. There are also a lot of people I know who have the "oh I have had this weird cough for days, and I feel a bit off ... but it's not covid I did a home test!" followed a few days later with "ok I have covid". It's a little frustrating, because a bit of painless extra caution now could help avoid something stronger down the line :-/

ummonk 4y ago

I wish we (in my case America, but this applies everywhere outside some parts of East Asia really) could just go back to normal but have normal include not going outside, or at least wearing a mask and frequently washing hands when you get the cold...

mettamage 4y ago

I don't care anymore because I've eyeballed that on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) [1], and it doesn't seem to be changing. That's less than flu season (which is more like 3000 to 5000 per year). I don't have sources for the flu. I read it somewhere, I might be underestimating or overestimating a bit. And of course, all those deaths are horrible, and I feel that pain when I contemplate that for a second. But in my day to day life, I don't see why I'd need to change my behavior. I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, but IMO I feel like I need to choose the lesser between two evils which is: 1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide? 2. Do I lock myself down for 5 years, and fight preventing reduced long Covid and 0.15% deaths population wide? The choices are written down simplified. If you think that there's hindsight bias, there's some but a lot less than you think. I was 2 to 3 weeks ahead of the Dutch government at any point in time. I've been able to protect all the people I care about. For example, my grandparents/parents never caught Covid when there was no vaccine (I was tracking Covid since mid Feb 2022 as a potential threat and constantly ran the probabilities). I'm not even sure if my grandparents ever caught it. [1] coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl

dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
>I am a bit worried about the effects of long Covid for people, Personal observation ( which contracts established 'science' ). There were always some 'long' aspects of all diseases including for colds/coughs/flu/tuberculosis etc. Nothing special with 'covid'.
donkeyd 4y ago
> I don't have sources for the flu. Just look at the RIVM site. It's probably higher than you specified, closer to 6-7k average per year, with massive differences. > on average 5 people are dying per day (1825 per year) This is a bit of a dishonest comparison. You're looking at the numbers from before the expected peak, since it's still incredibly warm in the Netherlands right now and peaks seem to happen when it gets colder. So it'll probably be closer to 4000 per year. While that still seems less than the flu, it's important to realize that the most vulnerable people are now getting vaccinated multiple times a year for covid. A lot of people who never got a flu shot are also being vaccinated. Then there's the fact that a lot of people are still distancing more than they used to. There's more work from home, many people still stay home when they have covid, while in the past, many people prided themselves for going to work with the flu. It's really hard to compare historic flu statistics with current covid statistics, because the way we handle covid is still very different from how we used to handle the flu. Therefore your conclusion is misguided. Now I really don't care whether you care about covid, but at lease the interpretation of the statistics should be correct and you missed a ton of details. [1] https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland https://www.rivm.nl/monitoring-sterftecijfers-nederland
- mettamage 4y ago
  Fair enough, thanks :)
Izkata 4y ago
> 1. Do I lock myself down for 2 years, and fight preventing long Covid and 2% deaths population wide? It was never as high as 2% in the first place. The numbers were inflated because we didn't have enough tests to go around, so only the people who we were already pretty sure were infected were tested.