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> Lockdown may be a temporary solution. The long-term solution is to maintain better hygiene (masks, washing hands) and get the vaccine without turning into pol

> Lockdown may be a temporary solution. The long-term solution is to maintain better hygiene (masks, washing hands) and get the vaccine without turning into political drama all over Twitter. Outside of China, how many countries continued a lockdown solution after vaccines became widely available (in that country)? Some countries at least pursued split lockdowns where vaccinated people were completely free.

once_inc 4y ago
Which was controversial in my country from the onset, and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. Not trying to shoehorn this discussion into politics, but the movement pushing back against lockdowns and forced/semi-forced vaccination isn't composed entirely out of anti-vaxxers or conspiracy nuts.
- nirimda 4y ago
  > Which was controversial in my country from the onset, and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. I'm quite sure it's always going to be controversial to enforce a lockdown, no matter what country you're in. In some countries the controversy will be whispered because it cannot be shouted, but it doesn't make it less controversial. Still, if the only goal of the lockdowns was to keep the health system from collapsing, and the vaccines effectively reduced the health problems associated with infection, then a relatively relaxed attitude about infection amongst vaccinated individuals is completely consistent with my implicit claim, here made explicit: that the lessons my original PP alleged we learnt so we could do better next time are exactly what we came up with in the height of the pandemic. Yet it was extremely divisive and destructive of social unity. I honestly doubt most democratic/responsible countries could do the same thing if another pandemic came out in five years time - even the same leaders would make different decisions. If the lesson is "what we did was the best we could do", then that just isn't good enough.
- Izkata 4y ago
  > and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. Now imagine how frustrated I've been for nearly two years on this: I knew this in Dec 2020. Pfizer never lied here, and we knew for a month or two after the vaccines were announced that this was the case. The lie came from media and politicians months after the vaccine was announced. For example, before it was memory-holed: https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/02/covid-19-vaccines-may-not-prevent-spread-of-virus-so-mask-wearing-other-protections-still-critical/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/02/covid-19-vaccines... https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronavirus-vaccine-prevent-transmissions-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronav... https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-19-vaccines-transmission.html https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-...
andrekandre 4y ago
> after vaccines became widely available i've heard that sinovac vaccine for covid wasnt as effective as mrna ones, and that may be a reason they are still doing lockdowns.. they may not have much of a choice
- sonyhamster 4y ago
  This is utter bullshit, if you read the data three doses of Sinovac is as effective as mRNA. I live in HK and have been vaccinated with three doses of Sinovac. My wife has been vaccinated with three doses of Pfizer. We caught COVID two weeks ago. My symptoms were a lot milder and tested negative after five days. She caught COVID off me and her symptoms were a lot worse and she only tested negative after 8 days. Annecdotal but I can tell you Sinovac is effective.
  - andrekandre 4y ago
    thanks for the reply good to hear some info from people there... then i wonder why they are still doing zero-covid lockdowns? is it hesitation for getting the vaccine? something else?

once_inc 4y ago

Which was controversial in my country from the onset, and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. Not trying to shoehorn this discussion into politics, but the movement pushing back against lockdowns and forced/semi-forced vaccination isn't composed entirely out of anti-vaxxers or conspiracy nuts.

nirimda 4y ago
> Which was controversial in my country from the onset, and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. I'm quite sure it's always going to be controversial to enforce a lockdown, no matter what country you're in. In some countries the controversy will be whispered because it cannot be shouted, but it doesn't make it less controversial. Still, if the only goal of the lockdowns was to keep the health system from collapsing, and the vaccines effectively reduced the health problems associated with infection, then a relatively relaxed attitude about infection amongst vaccinated individuals is completely consistent with my implicit claim, here made explicit: that the lessons my original PP alleged we learnt so we could do better next time are exactly what we came up with in the height of the pandemic. Yet it was extremely divisive and destructive of social unity. I honestly doubt most democratic/responsible countries could do the same thing if another pandemic came out in five years time - even the same leaders would make different decisions. If the lesson is "what we did was the best we could do", then that just isn't good enough.
Izkata 4y ago
> and which has recently become even more controversial when it was revealed that Pfizer didn't actually test for transmission prevention in their product. Now imagine how frustrated I've been for nearly two years on this: I knew this in Dec 2020. Pfizer never lied here, and we knew for a month or two after the vaccines were announced that this was the case. The lie came from media and politicians months after the vaccine was announced. For example, before it was memory-holed: https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/02/covid-19-vaccines-may-not-prevent-spread-of-virus-so-mask-wearing-other-protections-still-critical/ https://www.washington.edu/news/2020/12/02/covid-19-vaccines... https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronavirus-vaccine-prevent-transmissions-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronav... https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-19-vaccines-transmission.html https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/12/covid-...

andrekandre 4y ago

> after vaccines became widely available i've heard that sinovac vaccine for covid wasnt as effective as mrna ones, and that may be a reason they are still doing lockdowns.. they may not have much of a choice

sonyhamster 4y ago
This is utter bullshit, if you read the data three doses of Sinovac is as effective as mRNA. I live in HK and have been vaccinated with three doses of Sinovac. My wife has been vaccinated with three doses of Pfizer. We caught COVID two weeks ago. My symptoms were a lot milder and tested negative after five days. She caught COVID off me and her symptoms were a lot worse and she only tested negative after 8 days. Annecdotal but I can tell you Sinovac is effective.
- andrekandre 4y ago
  thanks for the reply good to hear some info from people there... then i wonder why they are still doing zero-covid lockdowns? is it hesitation for getting the vaccine? something else?