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Totalitarianism. Just that. You do not know what uou are risking if you protest. It may be worse that death or jail… Your family… Edit: the ellipses are becaus

Totalitarianism. Just that. You do not know what uou are risking if you protest. It may be worse that death or jail… Your family… Edit: the ellipses are because there are other possible outcomes, just that. I am not blaming the Chinese people. I am blaming the present (well, last 70 years at least) mode of government. Read Soljenitsin or Ginzburg or Nadiezda Mandelstam and you wil see what totalitarian Communism is capable of. More edit: I would be totally scared as well, by the way.

interpenetrate 4y ago
- remarkEon 4y ago
  China's vaccine doesn't work. That's why they continue to lockdown. It's really not more complicated than that.
  - interpenetrate 4y ago
    Why are you responding to me with this?
    - remarkEon 4y ago
      You invented some weird strawman about how great China is and that's why they need to lockdown (1.2 Billion people or something). I'm pointing out that the reason they're locking down is because their science sucks and as a result the vaccine doesn't work, so Covid is still a thing there when it isn't in the West because we have working vaccines and also a lot of people with natural immunity.
      - interpenetrate 4y ago
        Oh. Well more people died of COVID in the past two weeks in the U.S. (where COVID is no longer a thing) than have died of COVID in China ever.
        sumedh 4y ago
        > Well more people died of COVID in the past two weeks in the U.S because they dont want to take the vaccine, its their choice. The govt should not force you to take the vaccine.
        omginternets 4y ago
        My how the goalpost has shifted.
      - dirtyid 4y ago
        > West because we have working vaccines PRC vaccines work about as well as western ones in preventing serious cases, which is to say western vaccines suck as much as PRC vaccines post delta when they couldn't do the one thing that distinguished themselves - preventing spread (which from recent Pfizer drama they didn't even test for so mRNA was... never substantially superior). Hence the entire narrative around superior mRNA wank is ridiculous considering how little benefits it has especially with extra cold chain requirements or just the geopolitics of trusting unreliable foreign govs. Combine with west being systemically incapable of containing covid and PRC still left with only obvious choice of exercising superior state capcity to zero covid which prevents millions of deaths using stats of mRNA effectiveness in neighbouring east Asian countries. They're still locking down because state capacity > science, including the wests. Plenty of people are still dying from covid every week while 1/5 has long covid. Capitulating to living with covid due to lack of choice =/= covid's over.
        interpenetrate 4y ago
        The scope of Science has been set by private capital, but the Chinese lockdown is very clearly a scientific endeavor. Might as well compare vaccines vs. lockdown as two scientifically-informed tactics, although the two aren't mutually exclusive, as in the case of China.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  Here you go: one way to complete the previous sentence about what exactly happens to children in China when their parents are arrested. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/15/china-xinjiang-children-separated-families https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/15/china-xinjiang-children-...
  - interpenetrate 4y ago
    Much more interesting to follow live stories rather than throw around Adrian Zenz's crumbs years later. Here's the ongoing protest I was referring to, where "shattered lives" is a bruised back or (worse) the imaginary threat of becoming proletarian: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/china-henan-bank-depositors-protest-mic-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/china-henan-bank-deposi...
    - omginternets 4y ago
      It’s telling that you went from “show me historical precedent” to “history is off limits”.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  The CCP has setup quarantine camps for COVID in Tibet: https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1571790317950763008 https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1571790317950763008 And red COVID QR Codes can destroy you: https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1562803858916933638 https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1562803858916933638 All I am seeing on HN are people being careful to not offend, but at some point it stops being "cultural differences".
  - interpenetrate 4y ago
    > All I am seeing on HN are people being careful to not offend, but at some point it stops being "cultural differences". That's exactly my problem, too. Thankfully, someone in the replies to the tweet you sent finishes his sentence without ellipses. "Which is more sad: that they are locked up, or that they allow themselves to be locked up?" But this time he hides behind the rhetorical question mark! Just say the two things already: "Chinese people are docile and weak" and "Chinese people are evil, greedy liars." Let's just skip right to the Myth of the Jew. I just want people to take their beliefs seriously instead of hiding behind vague gestures and "fill in the blanks."
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      > "Chinese people are docile and weak" and "Chinese people are evil, greedy liars." No one is saying Chinese people are evil. My advice to you would be to stop making strawmans like this, that's not what people mean when they expose these atrocities. The CCP is the problem here and the authorities that are expunging basic civil rights in the name of COVID needs to be condemned. COVID is an excuse to control the population under the banner of 'zero-COVID policy'. You can't imprison a person forcibly in a 8x8 ft tent on top of a mountain for COVID isolation and explain away as "cultural differences". No one wants this shit, not the Chinese people.
      - interpenetrate 4y ago
        That's right. So the "cultural difference" you were referring to is the capacity to commit horrendous atrocities against basic civil rights that the West is too benevolent to grasp. You just used the words "expunging basic civil rights" and "atrocities" instead of "evil." You're one step further in the logical progression than the people you were annoyed with in your first reply to me. This unfolding progression is why we cannot take people at face value about what they "really mean." People don't know what they mean! See below: "I honestly couldn't imagine people in the West putting up with that, however I'm yet to fully understand why Chinese people continue to suffer the rules without riot." See? They don't understand it. Why not? What is being repressed, that their conscious could form these highly abstract and grammatically correct sentences, but yet they don't know from whence they came?
- cm2187 4y ago
  Well one difference with where I live is that we don’t jail doctors for trying to alert people of a new virus. We also get free elections that allows us to boot officials if they apply unpopular policies.
paganel 4y ago
> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- pfortuny 4y ago
  Is this really a political statement? Was the French Ancient Regime a liberal government letting people choose their lawyers? Was the French Revolution bloodless?
  - paganel 4y ago
    I'm commenting based on the direct remark made to me recently by one of the admins of this site, after I had also made some ideological/political comments, take it up with them (with the site admins, that is).

interpenetrate 4y ago

remarkEon 4y ago
China's vaccine doesn't work. That's why they continue to lockdown. It's really not more complicated than that.
- interpenetrate 4y ago
  Why are you responding to me with this?
  - remarkEon 4y ago
    You invented some weird strawman about how great China is and that's why they need to lockdown (1.2 Billion people or something). I'm pointing out that the reason they're locking down is because their science sucks and as a result the vaccine doesn't work, so Covid is still a thing there when it isn't in the West because we have working vaccines and also a lot of people with natural immunity.
    - interpenetrate 4y ago
      Oh. Well more people died of COVID in the past two weeks in the U.S. (where COVID is no longer a thing) than have died of COVID in China ever.
      - sumedh 4y ago
        > Well more people died of COVID in the past two weeks in the U.S because they dont want to take the vaccine, its their choice. The govt should not force you to take the vaccine.
      - omginternets 4y ago
        My how the goalpost has shifted.
    - dirtyid 4y ago
      > West because we have working vaccines PRC vaccines work about as well as western ones in preventing serious cases, which is to say western vaccines suck as much as PRC vaccines post delta when they couldn't do the one thing that distinguished themselves - preventing spread (which from recent Pfizer drama they didn't even test for so mRNA was... never substantially superior). Hence the entire narrative around superior mRNA wank is ridiculous considering how little benefits it has especially with extra cold chain requirements or just the geopolitics of trusting unreliable foreign govs. Combine with west being systemically incapable of containing covid and PRC still left with only obvious choice of exercising superior state capcity to zero covid which prevents millions of deaths using stats of mRNA effectiveness in neighbouring east Asian countries. They're still locking down because state capacity > science, including the wests. Plenty of people are still dying from covid every week while 1/5 has long covid. Capitulating to living with covid due to lack of choice =/= covid's over.
      - interpenetrate 4y ago
        The scope of Science has been set by private capital, but the Chinese lockdown is very clearly a scientific endeavor. Might as well compare vaccines vs. lockdown as two scientifically-informed tactics, although the two aren't mutually exclusive, as in the case of China.
rippercushions 4y ago
Here you go: one way to complete the previous sentence about what exactly happens to children in China when their parents are arrested. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/15/china-xinjiang-children-separated-families https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/09/15/china-xinjiang-children-...
- interpenetrate 4y ago
  Much more interesting to follow live stories rather than throw around Adrian Zenz's crumbs years later. Here's the ongoing protest I was referring to, where "shattered lives" is a bruised back or (worse) the imaginary threat of becoming proletarian: https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/china-henan-bank-depositors-protest-mic-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/10/china/china-henan-bank-deposi...
  - omginternets 4y ago
    It’s telling that you went from “show me historical precedent” to “history is off limits”.
systemvoltage 4y ago
The CCP has setup quarantine camps for COVID in Tibet: https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1571790317950763008 https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1571790317950763008 And red COVID QR Codes can destroy you: https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1562803858916933638 https://twitter.com/songpinganq/status/1562803858916933638 All I am seeing on HN are people being careful to not offend, but at some point it stops being "cultural differences".
- interpenetrate 4y ago
  > All I am seeing on HN are people being careful to not offend, but at some point it stops being "cultural differences". That's exactly my problem, too. Thankfully, someone in the replies to the tweet you sent finishes his sentence without ellipses. "Which is more sad: that they are locked up, or that they allow themselves to be locked up?" But this time he hides behind the rhetorical question mark! Just say the two things already: "Chinese people are docile and weak" and "Chinese people are evil, greedy liars." Let's just skip right to the Myth of the Jew. I just want people to take their beliefs seriously instead of hiding behind vague gestures and "fill in the blanks."
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    > "Chinese people are docile and weak" and "Chinese people are evil, greedy liars." No one is saying Chinese people are evil. My advice to you would be to stop making strawmans like this, that's not what people mean when they expose these atrocities. The CCP is the problem here and the authorities that are expunging basic civil rights in the name of COVID needs to be condemned. COVID is an excuse to control the population under the banner of 'zero-COVID policy'. You can't imprison a person forcibly in a 8x8 ft tent on top of a mountain for COVID isolation and explain away as "cultural differences". No one wants this shit, not the Chinese people.
    - interpenetrate 4y ago
      That's right. So the "cultural difference" you were referring to is the capacity to commit horrendous atrocities against basic civil rights that the West is too benevolent to grasp. You just used the words "expunging basic civil rights" and "atrocities" instead of "evil." You're one step further in the logical progression than the people you were annoyed with in your first reply to me. This unfolding progression is why we cannot take people at face value about what they "really mean." People don't know what they mean! See below: "I honestly couldn't imagine people in the West putting up with that, however I'm yet to fully understand why Chinese people continue to suffer the rules without riot." See? They don't understand it. Why not? What is being repressed, that their conscious could form these highly abstract and grammatically correct sentences, but yet they don't know from whence they came?
cm2187 4y ago
Well one difference with where I live is that we don’t jail doctors for trying to alert people of a new virus. We also get free elections that allows us to boot officials if they apply unpopular policies.

paganel 4y ago

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity. [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

pfortuny 4y ago
Is this really a political statement? Was the French Ancient Regime a liberal government letting people choose their lawyers? Was the French Revolution bloodless?
- paganel 4y ago
  I'm commenting based on the direct remark made to me recently by one of the admins of this site, after I had also made some ideological/political comments, take it up with them (with the site admins, that is).