6 ms·

Motorola secures Europe-wide sales ban on iPhone, iPad

90 points by Garbage 15y ago

nixxle 15y ago
Lol, can't blame the writer for not understanding how Europe works. It's actually a bunch of countries, not states.
- tallanvor 15y ago
  The article doesn't use the word state anywhere, but one of the definitions of state is "a politically unified people occupying a definite territory; nation.", so yes, Europe consists of multiples states.
- robertskmiles 15y ago
  The countries in the EU are known as 'Member States'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Un... Edit: Also the author of the piece is a native of an EU member state Edit2: Also now that I look I don't actually see the article mention the word 'state'. What the hell, man?
  - zachgreen 15y ago
    I think he was simply implying that Germany doesn't control the rest of the countries in Europe like the US government controls its states.
    - sipefree 15y ago
      They don't control the rest of Europe (though right now with the Euro situation they probably just about do), however there are provisions for legal precedent in one Member State to apply in every. I have no idea how it works and when it applies, though. It's definitely not so direct as in the U.S.
      - krzyk 15y ago
        Courts in Europe are not precedence-based. At least not in all countries. Here (Poland) there is no such thing as precedence in courts, not to mention basing a verdict on precedence in foreign court.
- roel_v 15y ago
  EU legislation doesn't use the word 'country' anywhere, and neither does anyone working in the Commission. The EU is made up of 'Member States' in the parlance.
  - seabee 15y ago
    Good thing too. 'Country' is a loaded word with various populations both claiming and denying their geographic locale as a separate country from the legal entity (or 'Member State') they're a part of.
- arethuza 15y ago
  Just to confuse things even more, some of the member states are made up of more than one country.
  - babebridou 15y ago
    This is just false. Just to clear things up: - a state with lower-case S is a subdivision of a Federal Country. - a State with upper-case S is a synonym of Country. - All members of the EU are States/Countries. Some of these countries are Federal (Germany for instance) and are subdivised into states (Länder in the case of Germany). - Some States of the EU include multiple Nations. UK is one of these. Scotland is neither a State nor a state for example, but it's a nation. - Some States of the EU have territories that encompass States that are not members of the EU. Monaco or the Vatican are examples. Some of these States belong to the Eurozone though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstates_and_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstates_and_the_European_Un...
    - barrkel 15y ago
      That's an amusing taxonomy, but don't fool yourself into thinking this stuff can be so precisely and unambiguously delineated. There's a continuum between a province with some autonomy to fully-fledged independent nation state, and the application of various English words to refer to particular entities that lie in different places on the continuum is governed primarily by history and culture, not by legal and political specifics. For any set of properties you care to define for nationhood or statehood, you can usually find entities that are not evenly cut into one or the other. The Commonwealth shares a head of state; for example, Canada would be a sovereign state (small s) within the terminology of the Commonwealth. The Common Travel Area has passport-free travel; Irish and UK citizens can vote in one another's national parliaments, while EU citizens generally can only vote in local and EU elections. British crown dependencies are distinct from its overseas territories. There aren't enough shades of meaning in the miserly handful of terms you defined above (and seems rather German-centric) to adequately cover all the dependent and independent relationships involved.
      - 15y ago
CaveTech 15y ago
Pretty big piece of FUD here. Title is "secures Europe-wide sales ban", yet the article is littered with bits like "could be barred from sale" and "whether Germany can enforce a Europe-wide ban on 3G-enabled iOS devices is unclear".
- mrich 15y ago
  It's a substantial win for sure. Of course it is unlikely that Motorola will try to enforce the ban, but it gives them an excellent bargaining position.
  - cezar_sl 15y ago
    Agreed. This will turn out to be just about money, not principle or, you know, what the consumer wants.
- robertskmiles 15y ago
  I like that HN tends to stay away from reddit-style sensationalist titles. I suppose here the OP is just copying the original title verbatim, but it's still misleading. Regarding the article itself, hopefully this will help popularise the fact that software patents are a bad joke.
  - r00fus 15y ago
    Copying the linkbait article title is not an excuse, the submitter (Garbage) could have linked to a more balanced article.
PedroCandeias 15y ago
A german court enforcing a europe wide ban? Now that would be rich.
iradik 15y ago
I wonder if we could get into a situation where all leading mobile devices in the world are banned.
- zacharypinter 15y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if every leading mobile device gets banned in at least one country or another.
fpgeek 15y ago
Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3333939 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3333939
IgorPartola 15y ago
How is any of this in the interest of the consumer? Can't one of those nice gov't agencies charged with protecting consumer rights stand in and say enough is enough? I guess things have to get a lot worse before Apple/Motorola/Samsung/etc. realize that this is just not good for anyone.
cezar_sl 15y ago
My view is that if someone takes your idea and makes it better, it's called progress, and it should be encouraged, not banned.
jarofgreen 15y ago
This is brilliant - but not because I hate Apple or have anything against someone choosing to use Apple, even tho I don't myself. But hopefully a ban on such a popular product (right before Christmas to) will bring software patents and all the issues around them fully into the public attention and debate. In the past it's been really hard to explain to non-geeks why they should care about such issues ... Or am I being optimistic in hoping it would be reasonable debate and not just an "Evil Motorola/Google!" hate fest?
- anonmouse 15y ago
  I downvoted you. Here's why: It's hard to take anyone seriously when they misspell "though" "tho". You may have made a good point, but I didn't read past your first sentence. I'm not trying to be a dick about it-- and I hate to clog up the comments section with a garbage comment like this one-- but you would really be doing yourself a favor to use somewhat correct spelling and grammar. It really sucks when people ignore what you have to say, not because of the message, but because of the delivery.
  - johnbatch 15y ago
    "Tho" is in the dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho
  - edu 15y ago
    And I down-voted you for an ad-hominen, and for not checking your dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tho http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tho
  - urbanautomaton 15y ago
    Is it common practice to register anonymous accounts to explain why you've downvoted someone? "anonmouse" doesn't have sufficient karma to downvote anything, so clearly isn't your regular account. You appear willing to downvote others over inconsequential nonsense, but won't risk your own karma over it. This doesn't seem entirely in the spirit of things, I have to say. > I'm not trying to be a dick about it-- and I hate to clog up the comments section with a garbage comment like this one... Next time, then, consider doing neither.
cygwin98 15y ago
Ironically, these kinds of law suits remind me of a book I read long time ago about in late nineteen century how American railroad tycoons bribed judges against each other: one day the judge bought by Vanderbilt would ban his opponents from operating, while a week later another judge bribed by his opponents would side-track the order. Heck, policemen bribed by each side even open fired against each other. Of course, nowadays, we replace bribery with lobbying and "influence". The same game is still on-going.
generators 15y ago
I hope apple give moto wads of money and start selling again, I bet their xmas sells are way more than what they have to pay to moto.
Freestyler_3 15y ago
How can Germany ban something Europe wide, since patents count per country? I don't get it, at the price they sell these Apple products why would they not buy the right licenses? I only have questions, no answers. Sorry for that.
- jsnell 15y ago
  Because Motorola isn't selling them a license. Ah, so why isn't Motorola selling them a license then? Because Apple is unique among the big mobile phone players in that they have no interest in licensing their own patents to others for money or for access to the other party's patents. Instead Apple are using them just for the purpose of getting the others off the market. Nokia apparently managed to bludgeon a cross-licensing agreement from Apple. Motorola is presumably attempting the same.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

90 points by Garbage 15y ago

nixxle 15y ago

Lol, can't blame the writer for not understanding how Europe works. It's actually a bunch of countries, not states.

tallanvor 15y ago
The article doesn't use the word state anywhere, but one of the definitions of state is "a politically unified people occupying a definite territory; nation.", so yes, Europe consists of multiples states.
robertskmiles 15y ago
The countries in the EU are known as 'Member States'. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member_state_of_the_European_Un... Edit: Also the author of the piece is a native of an EU member state Edit2: Also now that I look I don't actually see the article mention the word 'state'. What the hell, man?
- zachgreen 15y ago
  I think he was simply implying that Germany doesn't control the rest of the countries in Europe like the US government controls its states.
  - sipefree 15y ago
    They don't control the rest of Europe (though right now with the Euro situation they probably just about do), however there are provisions for legal precedent in one Member State to apply in every. I have no idea how it works and when it applies, though. It's definitely not so direct as in the U.S.
    - krzyk 15y ago
      Courts in Europe are not precedence-based. At least not in all countries. Here (Poland) there is no such thing as precedence in courts, not to mention basing a verdict on precedence in foreign court.
roel_v 15y ago
EU legislation doesn't use the word 'country' anywhere, and neither does anyone working in the Commission. The EU is made up of 'Member States' in the parlance.
- seabee 15y ago
  Good thing too. 'Country' is a loaded word with various populations both claiming and denying their geographic locale as a separate country from the legal entity (or 'Member State') they're a part of.
arethuza 15y ago
Just to confuse things even more, some of the member states are made up of more than one country.
- babebridou 15y ago
  This is just false. Just to clear things up: - a state with lower-case S is a subdivision of a Federal Country. - a State with upper-case S is a synonym of Country. - All members of the EU are States/Countries. Some of these countries are Federal (Germany for instance) and are subdivised into states (Länder in the case of Germany). - Some States of the EU include multiple Nations. UK is one of these. Scotland is neither a State nor a state for example, but it's a nation. - Some States of the EU have territories that encompass States that are not members of the EU. Monaco or the Vatican are examples. Some of these States belong to the Eurozone though. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstates_and_the_European_Union http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microstates_and_the_European_Un...
  - barrkel 15y ago
    That's an amusing taxonomy, but don't fool yourself into thinking this stuff can be so precisely and unambiguously delineated. There's a continuum between a province with some autonomy to fully-fledged independent nation state, and the application of various English words to refer to particular entities that lie in different places on the continuum is governed primarily by history and culture, not by legal and political specifics. For any set of properties you care to define for nationhood or statehood, you can usually find entities that are not evenly cut into one or the other. The Commonwealth shares a head of state; for example, Canada would be a sovereign state (small s) within the terminology of the Commonwealth. The Common Travel Area has passport-free travel; Irish and UK citizens can vote in one another's national parliaments, while EU citizens generally can only vote in local and EU elections. British crown dependencies are distinct from its overseas territories. There aren't enough shades of meaning in the miserly handful of terms you defined above (and seems rather German-centric) to adequately cover all the dependent and independent relationships involved.
    - 15y ago

CaveTech 15y ago

Pretty big piece of FUD here. Title is "secures Europe-wide sales ban", yet the article is littered with bits like "could be barred from sale" and "whether Germany can enforce a Europe-wide ban on 3G-enabled iOS devices is unclear".

mrich 15y ago
It's a substantial win for sure. Of course it is unlikely that Motorola will try to enforce the ban, but it gives them an excellent bargaining position.
- cezar_sl 15y ago
  Agreed. This will turn out to be just about money, not principle or, you know, what the consumer wants.
robertskmiles 15y ago
I like that HN tends to stay away from reddit-style sensationalist titles. I suppose here the OP is just copying the original title verbatim, but it's still misleading. Regarding the article itself, hopefully this will help popularise the fact that software patents are a bad joke.
- r00fus 15y ago
  Copying the linkbait article title is not an excuse, the submitter (Garbage) could have linked to a more balanced article.

PedroCandeias 15y ago

A german court enforcing a europe wide ban? Now that would be rich.

iradik 15y ago

I wonder if we could get into a situation where all leading mobile devices in the world are banned.

zacharypinter 15y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if every leading mobile device gets banned in at least one country or another.

fpgeek 15y ago

Previous discussion: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3333939 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3333939

IgorPartola 15y ago

How is any of this in the interest of the consumer? Can't one of those nice gov't agencies charged with protecting consumer rights stand in and say enough is enough? I guess things have to get a lot worse before Apple/Motorola/Samsung/etc. realize that this is just not good for anyone.

cezar_sl 15y ago

My view is that if someone takes your idea and makes it better, it's called progress, and it should be encouraged, not banned.

jarofgreen 15y ago

This is brilliant - but not because I hate Apple or have anything against someone choosing to use Apple, even tho I don't myself. But hopefully a ban on such a popular product (right before Christmas to) will bring software patents and all the issues around them fully into the public attention and debate. In the past it's been really hard to explain to non-geeks why they should care about such issues ... Or am I being optimistic in hoping it would be reasonable debate and not just an "Evil Motorola/Google!" hate fest?

anonmouse 15y ago
I downvoted you. Here's why: It's hard to take anyone seriously when they misspell "though" "tho". You may have made a good point, but I didn't read past your first sentence. I'm not trying to be a dick about it-- and I hate to clog up the comments section with a garbage comment like this one-- but you would really be doing yourself a favor to use somewhat correct spelling and grammar. It really sucks when people ignore what you have to say, not because of the message, but because of the delivery.
- johnbatch 15y ago
  "Tho" is in the dictionary http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tho
- edu 15y ago
  And I down-voted you for an ad-hominen, and for not checking your dictionary: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tho http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tho
- urbanautomaton 15y ago
  Is it common practice to register anonymous accounts to explain why you've downvoted someone? "anonmouse" doesn't have sufficient karma to downvote anything, so clearly isn't your regular account. You appear willing to downvote others over inconsequential nonsense, but won't risk your own karma over it. This doesn't seem entirely in the spirit of things, I have to say. > I'm not trying to be a dick about it-- and I hate to clog up the comments section with a garbage comment like this one... Next time, then, consider doing neither.

cygwin98 15y ago

Ironically, these kinds of law suits remind me of a book I read long time ago about in late nineteen century how American railroad tycoons bribed judges against each other: one day the judge bought by Vanderbilt would ban his opponents from operating, while a week later another judge bribed by his opponents would side-track the order. Heck, policemen bribed by each side even open fired against each other. Of course, nowadays, we replace bribery with lobbying and "influence". The same game is still on-going.

generators 15y ago

I hope apple give moto wads of money and start selling again, I bet their xmas sells are way more than what they have to pay to moto.

Freestyler_3 15y ago

How can Germany ban something Europe wide, since patents count per country? I don't get it, at the price they sell these Apple products why would they not buy the right licenses? I only have questions, no answers. Sorry for that.

jsnell 15y ago
Because Motorola isn't selling them a license. Ah, so why isn't Motorola selling them a license then? Because Apple is unique among the big mobile phone players in that they have no interest in licensing their own patents to others for money or for access to the other party's patents. Instead Apple are using them just for the purpose of getting the others off the market. Nokia apparently managed to bludgeon a cross-licensing agreement from Apple. Motorola is presumably attempting the same.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]