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I took lessons from someone who had TWO grand pianos, a Steinway and a Bechstein. They sold their house, and I became the custodian of the Bechstein on indefini

I took lessons from someone who had TWO grand pianos, a Steinway and a Bechstein. They sold their house, and I became the custodian of the Bechstein on indefinite consignment. It had a cracked sound board, but she was sure that collectors would overlook that and be willing to pay at least $20K, given the illustrious name. Finally a technician came and examined it, and offered $2K, which he said was mostly charity. Eventually I was getting my floors refinished and the piano had to go, and her daughter took it. The only pianos that definitely fetch a lot are Steinway grands, and maybe a few smaller brands like Bösendorfer. Full uprights? Maybe a little. Spinets? Forget it.

zwieback 4y ago
Wow, 4 comments on this post and two are about cracked Bechstein soundboards!
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. If humidity changes drastically, the wood will crack and the piano action will suffer. This is true for any brand of piano. You can either install a humidity control system (known as "Dampp-Chaser systems") onto the piano itself, or invest in whole-home humidity control. The latter is always preferable when possible. If you don't do either of these, the piano—even the $250,000 ones—will fall apart over the course of a decade or two. Almost all used pianos held onto by people who don't play (e.g., the piano is furniture) almost always are busted.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. This is true of any wood instrument, a guitar being one most familiar to folks. There are humidity control options for smaller instruments, too. All kinds of damage can result, such as sunken or collapsed tops (especially arch topped instruments that can be under a lot of string pressure, such as mandolins) or cracks as in a piano's soundboard. My solution was to move to Seattle where our house generally stays at the perfect 35-45% humidity, and all the instruments are happy.
  - aidenn0 4y ago
    Do uprights need that? My house varies from 5% humidity to 93% humidity...
    - reikonomusha 4y ago
      Yes, uprights are definitely affected, in some cases even worse than a grand piano, because the soundboard is abutted to a wall/heat register/whatever with an upright. (Never put pianos near radiators or heat registers!)
      - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
        My piano tuner was adamant that all uprights need to be on interior walls, which I agree with. That lessens the temperature swings.
    - Nition 4y ago
      Having a Dampp Chaser in it will help a lot with it staying in tune, at the very least.
- geff82 4y ago
  This can happen on all pianos. Do not forget that having „a Steinway“ or a „Bechstein“ for many people means that the piano is 100 years old (I think of my neighbor‘s 100 year old Steinway with a cracked soundboard, too). In so many years, a lot can happen. And in 100 years, the piano will sure not have been kept in perfect environmental conditions (which is a difficult topic for piano owners).
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    It's true, that "older is better" is only true up to a point. A 40-year-old Steinway? Probably great. A 120-year-old? Not so much.
bluGill 4y ago
A grand piano can be rebuilt, for $20000 investment that bechstien could have been like new again. This is a great deal if you have room for a large grand as most places (not people) buying grand pianos want new even though a rebuilt used is just as good.
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  Rebuilding can be a great option, but you really don't know what you're going to get on the other end. Pianos definitely have "personalities", that is, quirks, unique characteristics, etc. You may get a "like new" piano, but it also may not be all that nice sounding. Even 5 brand new pianos, same size, same manufacturer, same production year will sound different to a pianist's ears. Some will be warmer, others brighter; some sensitive, some temperamental; some duller, others sparklier; etc. Many of these qualities can be adjusted a bit through a process called "voicing" and "regulation", but general wisdom among piano technicians is to not try to push a piano too far away from its "natural" timbre. Rebuilding with a new soundboard would be a huge job. Depending on where OP lives and just how much work the rebuild entails, it could be closer to $40k.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
reikonomusha 4y ago
Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Bluthner, Fazioli, Steinway, Shigeru Kawai, (golden era) Baldwin all fetch top-rate prices for a piano that's in good musical condition. Steinway typically is easiest to sell because it's a household name, but equally attracts "piano flippers" (like house flippers) who clean them up purely aesthetically and sell them for outrageous prices.
- kawera 4y ago
  Pleyel too.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  wow, you're really a Steinway hater, aren't you? I've talked to lots and lots of players, and an extremely common statement is that the feel of the Steinway keys is the best. I kinda agree with that, while realizing that there's no convincing anybody on that one way or the other. I don't think it's just that Steinway's got a name, although that's certainly a factor. They do have the marketing budget to be able to supply one to almost any orchestra or concert hall that needs one. Finally, there's a whole book on Glenn Gould's Steinway, and I was there when the author came to talk about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_ZGVGmfAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_ZGVGmfAw Gould liked the feel so light that you could practically breathe on it and it'd play. There was only one tuner, Vern, who is blind, who was allowed to tune it. There's a hilarious moment near the end where I ask her a question about the feel of the pedals and she said "I don't know, let's call Vern." So we call him up live and talk to him.
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    I am not a Steinway hater; I've just done an enormous amount of research during the course of buying my own pianos. This included trying new and used Steinways, interviewing conservatory technicians (that have Steinway in their stock), and so on. Steinway is a hugely successful brand and the piano of choice for many. Steinway's best pianos are undoubtedly world-class. Those are the pianos you hear in recordings and concerts. The "feel" of Steinway's keys are due to the Renner action. They bought Renner-the-company relatively recently, which about every other top tier manufacturer uses/used, including Bechstein, Fazioli, and so on. Previously, Steinway built their own actions, but Renner simply did a better job. Gould owned a Chickering, and also recorded on Yamaha. He used Steinway at concerts in NYC as well. His famous Goldberg recording of the 80s was on a Yamaha.
foobarian 4y ago
From what I can see on Craigslist in New England there are a lot of pianos being given away for free, on the condition that you come and move it. I helped someone do that once, and it really didn't click how big of a task that was until we did it. The new owner also gave away that piano, and transport was again someone else's problem :-)
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  My neighbor, in fact, has a spinet which he can't give away.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  Professional piano movers don’t cost that much (I’ve had my grand moved twice). I’d never attempt it myself, even for a moderately sized upright! On free pianos - usually there’s a reason they’re free… They’re often inherited, old, under-maintained and need a several thousand dollars of work to bring up to a decently usable standard (the felt degrades, so all the damper and hammer felts often need replacing, possibly even strings). But spending that much on a new Yamaha would probably get you something better sounding…

zwieback 4y ago

Wow, 4 comments on this post and two are about cracked Bechstein soundboards!

reikonomusha 4y ago
This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. If humidity changes drastically, the wood will crack and the piano action will suffer. This is true for any brand of piano. You can either install a humidity control system (known as "Dampp-Chaser systems") onto the piano itself, or invest in whole-home humidity control. The latter is always preferable when possible. If you don't do either of these, the piano—even the $250,000 ones—will fall apart over the course of a decade or two. Almost all used pianos held onto by people who don't play (e.g., the piano is furniture) almost always are busted.
- mikestew 4y ago
  This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. This is true of any wood instrument, a guitar being one most familiar to folks. There are humidity control options for smaller instruments, too. All kinds of damage can result, such as sunken or collapsed tops (especially arch topped instruments that can be under a lot of string pressure, such as mandolins) or cracks as in a piano's soundboard. My solution was to move to Seattle where our house generally stays at the perfect 35-45% humidity, and all the instruments are happy.
- aidenn0 4y ago
  Do uprights need that? My house varies from 5% humidity to 93% humidity...
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    Yes, uprights are definitely affected, in some cases even worse than a grand piano, because the soundboard is abutted to a wall/heat register/whatever with an upright. (Never put pianos near radiators or heat registers!)
    - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
      My piano tuner was adamant that all uprights need to be on interior walls, which I agree with. That lessens the temperature swings.
  - Nition 4y ago
    Having a Dampp Chaser in it will help a lot with it staying in tune, at the very least.
geff82 4y ago
This can happen on all pianos. Do not forget that having „a Steinway“ or a „Bechstein“ for many people means that the piano is 100 years old (I think of my neighbor‘s 100 year old Steinway with a cracked soundboard, too). In so many years, a lot can happen. And in 100 years, the piano will sure not have been kept in perfect environmental conditions (which is a difficult topic for piano owners).
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  It's true, that "older is better" is only true up to a point. A 40-year-old Steinway? Probably great. A 120-year-old? Not so much.

bluGill 4y ago

A grand piano can be rebuilt, for $20000 investment that bechstien could have been like new again. This is a great deal if you have room for a large grand as most places (not people) buying grand pianos want new even though a rebuilt used is just as good.

reikonomusha 4y ago
Rebuilding can be a great option, but you really don't know what you're going to get on the other end. Pianos definitely have "personalities", that is, quirks, unique characteristics, etc. You may get a "like new" piano, but it also may not be all that nice sounding. Even 5 brand new pianos, same size, same manufacturer, same production year will sound different to a pianist's ears. Some will be warmer, others brighter; some sensitive, some temperamental; some duller, others sparklier; etc. Many of these qualities can be adjusted a bit through a process called "voicing" and "regulation", but general wisdom among piano technicians is to not try to push a piano too far away from its "natural" timbre. Rebuilding with a new soundboard would be a huge job. Depending on where OP lives and just how much work the rebuild entails, it could be closer to $40k.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

reikonomusha 4y ago

Bechstein, Bosendorfer, Bluthner, Fazioli, Steinway, Shigeru Kawai, (golden era) Baldwin all fetch top-rate prices for a piano that's in good musical condition. Steinway typically is easiest to sell because it's a household name, but equally attracts "piano flippers" (like house flippers) who clean them up purely aesthetically and sell them for outrageous prices.

kawera 4y ago
Pleyel too.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
AlbertCory 4y ago
wow, you're really a Steinway hater, aren't you? I've talked to lots and lots of players, and an extremely common statement is that the feel of the Steinway keys is the best. I kinda agree with that, while realizing that there's no convincing anybody on that one way or the other. I don't think it's just that Steinway's got a name, although that's certainly a factor. They do have the marketing budget to be able to supply one to almost any orchestra or concert hall that needs one. Finally, there's a whole book on Glenn Gould's Steinway, and I was there when the author came to talk about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_ZGVGmfAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow_ZGVGmfAw Gould liked the feel so light that you could practically breathe on it and it'd play. There was only one tuner, Vern, who is blind, who was allowed to tune it. There's a hilarious moment near the end where I ask her a question about the feel of the pedals and she said "I don't know, let's call Vern." So we call him up live and talk to him.
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  I am not a Steinway hater; I've just done an enormous amount of research during the course of buying my own pianos. This included trying new and used Steinways, interviewing conservatory technicians (that have Steinway in their stock), and so on. Steinway is a hugely successful brand and the piano of choice for many. Steinway's best pianos are undoubtedly world-class. Those are the pianos you hear in recordings and concerts. The "feel" of Steinway's keys are due to the Renner action. They bought Renner-the-company relatively recently, which about every other top tier manufacturer uses/used, including Bechstein, Fazioli, and so on. Previously, Steinway built their own actions, but Renner simply did a better job. Gould owned a Chickering, and also recorded on Yamaha. He used Steinway at concerts in NYC as well. His famous Goldberg recording of the 80s was on a Yamaha.

foobarian 4y ago

From what I can see on Craigslist in New England there are a lot of pianos being given away for free, on the condition that you come and move it. I helped someone do that once, and it really didn't click how big of a task that was until we did it. The new owner also gave away that piano, and transport was again someone else's problem :-)

AlbertCory 4y ago
My neighbor, in fact, has a spinet which he can't give away.
stephen_g 4y ago
Professional piano movers don’t cost that much (I’ve had my grand moved twice). I’d never attempt it myself, even for a moderately sized upright! On free pianos - usually there’s a reason they’re free… They’re often inherited, old, under-maintained and need a several thousand dollars of work to bring up to a decently usable standard (the felt degrades, so all the damper and hammer felts often need replacing, possibly even strings). But spending that much on a new Yamaha would probably get you something better sounding…