4 ms·
Oh dear, that story, except the abuse, could be me. I bought a Bechstein upright last year, an R124 with S/N 215798. The R (for Residence) and A models differ
by geff82 4y ago
Oh dear, that story, except the abuse, could be me. I bought a Bechstein upright last year, an R124 with S/N 215798. The R (for Residence) and A models differ a bit. R is more refined, and the differences between individual pianos are much less than in the A series. You can buy an R blind, but should never do so with an A. That said, just like the OP, I had great As at the Bechstein center.
Buying this piano was a deep experience. It‘s a nerdy thing, too. Because you have to deep dive into why some pianos cost 4000 and others cost 40000.
And it was deep in an emotional way. Deciding to sink the cost of a car in something… so emotional… not necessary to survive… is an act of love.
Bechstein itself is to be loved, too. While their pianos are super premium just as those from Steinway, they also produce the Hoffmann-brand on their own, which is much more affordable. In contrast, Steinway more or less sells rebranded pianos from Asia as their lower brands.
For those not into pianos: Steinway and Bechstein are premium manufacturers from Germany, like BMW and Mercedes. (Fazioli would be the Rolls Royce then).
- reikonomusha 4y agoSteinway also makes pianos in the USA, with a slightly different design than their Hamburg-built ones. I personally find them to be over-priced (since they have a stage monopoly), and lacking the quality control that Bechstein or Fazioli have.
- geff82 4y agoYou are of course 100% right. That said, the New York Steinway factory mainly builds for the American continent. Where I live, Steinways come from Hamburg, Germany.
- Cupertino95014 4y agoI had a conversation with a prof from University of the Pacific (which is in Stockton, go figure) who was in charge of their piano program. He strongly contested the "new Steinways are shit" trope, after playing a whole lot of them and buying them for his students. There's actually a book I read about the making of one particular Steinway concert grand, which is now retired after an illustrious career on stage at Carnegie Hall and other big places. I think this is it: https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517703564/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517... (reviews are a little mixed, so read those before you buy it.)
- reikonomusha 4y agoSteinway produces a ton of pianos every year. The best of their pianos go to the concert stages and recording studios. The next best go to their top clients. The next best get reserved for their artists. The next best get put into stores for "normal" people to buy. Steinway, owned by a finance firm on Wall Street, has various quality control issues. They'll ship a six-figure piano with saw dust in it, lousy regulation, etc. Technicians know how to clean these up and work with them, but they don't hold a candle to e.g. the quality control of Fazioli. Steinway is the household name, and is ubiquitous in professional settings, so they can get away with it.
- Cupertino95014 4y agoUsually you try out a piano before you buy it, and preferably you have a tech look at it, too. So wouldn't you notice if it had issues?
- reikonomusha 4y agoIf you hire a technician, they will tell you the problems the piano has, and tell you the qualities of the piano that will be practically immutable (e.g., aspects of timbre and resonance). The technician won't be able to tell you if the sound is what you prefer though. More likely than not, for the average Steinway in a store, the technician will suggest getting it voiced and regulated, which will carry a $1000+ price tag and a couple days' worth of work. Maybe that doesn't matter if you're already spending $200k, though.
- pen2l 4y agoI think it's also true that different pianos bode well for different repertoire sets. I think Chopin is played well on Steinways because Steinways have heavy keys, meaning that exercising the full freedom of dynamics works out better for when you want to make very, very soft notes and then soft notes and then roaringly loud notes. I'm no Chopin's Ballades-level pianist but playing Steinway at the piano store I do find this to be true.
- fortran77 4y agoPeople only buy Steinway for personal use because they can’t afford Bösendorfer.
- kashunstva 4y agoI’m a professional pianist. Undoubtedly this is true for some. But there are important tonal and other differences that may be the overriding factor. I regularly played a smaller Bösendorfer that I despised; its tone was ordinary and its action was uneven and imprecise. But a few years ago I performed on an Imperial Flügel that was spectacular. My own instrument for practice at home is a Steinway B, and I prefer it irrespective of whether more expensive pianos exist. But maybe that’s not what you had in mind for “personal use.”
- deanmen 4y agoWhat would Bösendorfer be?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- reikonomusha 4y agoI don't really agree with the characterization of the brands as described. The best of Fazioli, Bechstein, Steinway, Bosendorfer, Yamaha, etc. are all world-class, and all have $200k+ price tags new. Bosendorfer doesn't seem to be the piano of choice for many these days, save for a few pianists like Andras Schiff who really appreciate a very rich and warm tone for playing Bach, especially without pedal. There's some truth that Fazioli is in a separate class, but not for the reason you might think. Fazioli isn't necessarily in its own class because of superlative quality (they do have amazing quality and amazing customer support!), but rather because so few are made per year, built in and exported from Italy, with extreme quality control, and they're incredibly expensive.
- ghostpepper 4y agoSounds like Fazioli is Ferrari then?
- throwbigdata 4y agoI purchased a Fazioli a few months ago and I really like it.
- geff82 4y agoBösendorfer is not German :) but of course it is super premium, too. My characterization was coined on the German manufacturers (car and piano) only.
- pianoben 4y agoThey're very interesting pianos! They are incredibly refined, very high quality, and the equal of the best of Steinways. They're rather uncommon in the USA due to the virtual duopoly of Steinway and Yamaha in concert halls and conservatories, but you can certainly find them. Personally I love some of the technical choices - on their larger grands, like the Imperial, there are extra keys on the low end. They're all black and not really meant to be played. Instead they provide extra resonance and a larger soundboard - though of course, if you want to hit that low G# in Ravel's Scarbo that doesn't actually exist on regular pianos, you can on a Bosendorfer. As for your original question, I don't have an answer - car analogies don't hold very well for pianos.
- juve1996 4y agoThe W. Hoffmann brand pianos (at least the verticals) are fantastic. Source - I have one. Very well made, my technician loves working on it as well.
- geff82 4y agoI bought my Bechstein because a nice W.Hoffmann draw me to the the brand!
- fuzzfactor 4y ago>And so I learned to play the piano on an instrument I never liked. An instrument that was forced upon me because it made practical and financial sense, not because I had any kind of emotional connection with it. Seems like he's really into the instrument itself regardless of the joys or sorrows associated with pianos for him over basically his whole life. Then later getting to pick out the ideal instrument for himself is rewarding in an incomparable way. >And so, 35 years after starting >such a long and tumultuous journey, I can safely say it was well worth the wait. I don't think anybody could have said it better. It's not a piano for me but I learned on an instrument that was not so likable because it was not even as realistic as a student model, it was an early imitation stage model instead. An instrument that was gifted to me because it made practical and financial sense, and that's just one of the things that helped build an emotional connection with it.
- kiney 4y agoSteinway is interesting - the company was founded in the USA by Heinrich Steinweg - a german immigrant that previously founded another piano company in his home region that also still exists today: Grotrian-Steinweg Pianofortefabrik in Braunschweig, Germany. I live in Braunschweig and a friend of mine worked in the company as an engineer for a few years.