6 ms·

What you think women want is clearly not what women want, because you're only one woman, and women are complex and varied, and want different things. Also, I w

by sgentle 15y ago

What you think women want is clearly not what women want, because you're only one woman, and women are complex and varied, and want different things. Also, I want a different thing to what you want, and lots of women want what I want. So you are twice as wrong! Not only for assuming other women want what you want, but also that you want what other women want! Ahem. Now that "want" and "women" have started sounding less like words and more like an arbitrary sequence of sounds, is anyone willing to contribute actual science to the discussion? People yelling at each other "women are like me!" "no, women are like me!" has, I fear, outlived its usefulness. Are there any studies covering, say, startup success by founder gender? Any documentation on attrition rates from school -> university -> startup? Has anyone even been bothered to go out and survey the attitudes of women towards startups rather than just projecting out their own? Rather than shutting up about what women want, I think a better idea would be to actually find out what women want. Gender balance is clearly an issue in the startup community, and not talking about it isn't likely to help. Are there few women because women don't want startups, or because startups don't want women? I don't know, but there comes a point where more opinions are not useful.

ColdAsIce 15y ago
Whats the problem with having babies? Its not impossible to continue working and taking care of babies, after the first year or so. During that year your husband can take the work or someone you hire. Big deal. This argument what woman want is kind of sexist, since nobody talked what men want before. Do whatever the fuck you want and stfu, gay, lesbian or baby-creator.
- DuncanIdaho 15y ago
  What if most women want to take care of their own babies? Hell I'm a guy and I'm dreaming about downshifting or even ending my career when kids start coming. I have seen consumerist/careerist families and I believe I can do better. I actually WANT my kids to be raised in an atmosphere of (material) scarcity to the point that I could do without major wealth or if I acquired it I would "hide" it from them. I must be batshit crazy huh?
  - ColdAsIce 15y ago
    Who says you cant bring your child to work? False dichtomy "careerist" "or" "family". Modern family can evolve to just as other relationships. It is very frightening for a child to be left at a day-care center, it would be much better if the parents could bring their children to work and have an "office" only for kids. Hire a baby-sitter and you are all set. Work and family. Don't tell me this and that as reasons why it cant work. It works for me and my coworkers just fine.
    - jtheory 15y ago
      Very much agreed with gp on downshifting career when having kids -- that's what I've done. I'm less convinced about bringing the child to work, mostly because I've never been in a workplace where I've seen that, so it's tough to imagine. Can you elaborate on that (or do you or a co-worker have a blog post, article, etc. about your experience)? Can you run though a typical day? I work remotely, entirely, as does my wife. Obviously, this is one way to solve that problem, but it's not possible for most people, and the startup I work with is thinking about setting up offices, etc..
      - ColdAsIce 15y ago
        Child comes with the parent and sits or sleeps in his small chair in the parents office. When the child wakes up or wants something, the parent gives it to him like any other person that comes into the office and wants something. Usually the baby is happy if he can get a toy or push the chair around a bit. The baby also likes to have his father in clear sight when in his chair with toys. For the father it means he gives attention to the child from time to time, but he can still get his job done. Once he was on phone with a key account manager on the other side, the baby started crying for attention or something, the key account manager heard and asked if he needs a minute or two... he took the baby in his arm and continued the conversation while the baby tryed to smack him, thats how it looked like. Very funny and uplifted the whole conversation. I imagine for bigger children we could dedicate one office full with toys to them. It would be like daycare center on-site.
lauraglu 15y ago
Women do have startups - they have run businesses for generations. Women leave technology because of overt and subtle sexism and harassment; http://rachelappel.com/stats-data-and-answers-as-to-why-there-are-so-few-women-in-technology-fields http://rachelappel.com/stats-data-and-answers-as-to-why-ther... And there are plenty that get cut off in the "university" step of your funnel because they aren't equal there either: http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.html#What%20the%20Committee%20Learned http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.html#What%20the%20Committ... That being said, the trend is moving towards women running both the business and the home, solo if need be: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/the-end-of... Do those help?
- sgentle 15y ago
  Yes! Wow, that's fantastic. Did you see the numbers change in the 2011 MIT report[1]? And that LPFI report[2] is just mindblowing. "The vast majority of men in startups believed their companies spent an adequate amount of time addressing diversity (82%). Almost 40% of women, however, believed not enough time was devoted to addressing company diversity. Additionally, women in startups were much more likely to endorse companywide practices to increase diversity than their male counterparts in startups (65% versus 41%)." "Female status and underrepresented racial/ethnic status were both significant predictors of negative workplace experiences suggesting that negative workplace experiences increase with membership in both demographic groups (F(1,555)=15.4, p<.00, and F(1,555)=7.47, p<.01; B=.68, SE=.18, p<.01 and B=.73, SE=.29, p<.05; Appendix 2)" Now that's the way to shoot down a "there's no problem here it's just that women don't want to do startups" argument. Thanks, I had no idea the numbers were so compelling. I wish there was more of what you're posting on the front page. -- [1] http://web.mit.edu/faculty/reports/pdf/women_faculty.pdf http://web.mit.edu/faculty/reports/pdf/women_faculty.pdf [2] http://www.lpfi.org/sites/default/files/tilted_playing_field_lpfi_9_29_11.pdf http://www.lpfi.org/sites/default/files/tilted_playing_field...
  - lauraglu 15y ago
    Here's one more to add to the mix: http://io9.com/5867401/there-really-is-no-difference-between-men-and-womens-math-abilities http://io9.com/5867401/there-really-is-no-difference-between...

by sgentle 15y ago

ColdAsIce 15y ago

Whats the problem with having babies? Its not impossible to continue working and taking care of babies, after the first year or so. During that year your husband can take the work or someone you hire. Big deal. This argument what woman want is kind of sexist, since nobody talked what men want before. Do whatever the fuck you want and stfu, gay, lesbian or baby-creator.

DuncanIdaho 15y ago
What if most women want to take care of their own babies? Hell I'm a guy and I'm dreaming about downshifting or even ending my career when kids start coming. I have seen consumerist/careerist families and I believe I can do better. I actually WANT my kids to be raised in an atmosphere of (material) scarcity to the point that I could do without major wealth or if I acquired it I would "hide" it from them. I must be batshit crazy huh?
- ColdAsIce 15y ago
  Who says you cant bring your child to work? False dichtomy "careerist" "or" "family". Modern family can evolve to just as other relationships. It is very frightening for a child to be left at a day-care center, it would be much better if the parents could bring their children to work and have an "office" only for kids. Hire a baby-sitter and you are all set. Work and family. Don't tell me this and that as reasons why it cant work. It works for me and my coworkers just fine.
  - jtheory 15y ago
    Very much agreed with gp on downshifting career when having kids -- that's what I've done. I'm less convinced about bringing the child to work, mostly because I've never been in a workplace where I've seen that, so it's tough to imagine. Can you elaborate on that (or do you or a co-worker have a blog post, article, etc. about your experience)? Can you run though a typical day? I work remotely, entirely, as does my wife. Obviously, this is one way to solve that problem, but it's not possible for most people, and the startup I work with is thinking about setting up offices, etc..
    - ColdAsIce 15y ago
      Child comes with the parent and sits or sleeps in his small chair in the parents office. When the child wakes up or wants something, the parent gives it to him like any other person that comes into the office and wants something. Usually the baby is happy if he can get a toy or push the chair around a bit. The baby also likes to have his father in clear sight when in his chair with toys. For the father it means he gives attention to the child from time to time, but he can still get his job done. Once he was on phone with a key account manager on the other side, the baby started crying for attention or something, the key account manager heard and asked if he needs a minute or two... he took the baby in his arm and continued the conversation while the baby tryed to smack him, thats how it looked like. Very funny and uplifted the whole conversation. I imagine for bigger children we could dedicate one office full with toys to them. It would be like daycare center on-site.

lauraglu 15y ago

Women do have startups - they have run businesses for generations. Women leave technology because of overt and subtle sexism and harassment; http://rachelappel.com/stats-data-and-answers-as-to-why-there-are-so-few-women-in-technology-fields http://rachelappel.com/stats-data-and-answers-as-to-why-ther... And there are plenty that get cut off in the "university" step of your funnel because they aren't equal there either: http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.html#What%20the%20Committee%20Learned http://web.mit.edu/fnl/women/women.html#What%20the%20Committ... That being said, the trend is moving towards women running both the business and the home, solo if need be: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/the-end-of-men/8135/ http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/print/2010/07/the-end-of... Do those help?

sgentle 15y ago
Yes! Wow, that's fantastic. Did you see the numbers change in the 2011 MIT report[1]? And that LPFI report[2] is just mindblowing. "The vast majority of men in startups believed their companies spent an adequate amount of time addressing diversity (82%). Almost 40% of women, however, believed not enough time was devoted to addressing company diversity. Additionally, women in startups were much more likely to endorse companywide practices to increase diversity than their male counterparts in startups (65% versus 41%)." "Female status and underrepresented racial/ethnic status were both significant predictors of negative workplace experiences suggesting that negative workplace experiences increase with membership in both demographic groups (F(1,555)=15.4, p<.00, and F(1,555)=7.47, p<.01; B=.68, SE=.18, p<.01 and B=.73, SE=.29, p<.05; Appendix 2)" Now that's the way to shoot down a "there's no problem here it's just that women don't want to do startups" argument. Thanks, I had no idea the numbers were so compelling. I wish there was more of what you're posting on the front page. -- [1] http://web.mit.edu/faculty/reports/pdf/women_faculty.pdf http://web.mit.edu/faculty/reports/pdf/women_faculty.pdf [2] http://www.lpfi.org/sites/default/files/tilted_playing_field_lpfi_9_29_11.pdf http://www.lpfi.org/sites/default/files/tilted_playing_field...
- lauraglu 15y ago
  Here's one more to add to the mix: http://io9.com/5867401/there-really-is-no-difference-between-men-and-womens-math-abilities http://io9.com/5867401/there-really-is-no-difference-between...