11 ms·

My First Piano

115 points by jbd 4y ago

BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 4y ago
For a beginner, consider a clavichord. Price is reasonable and the volume won't bother others in the house. It takes up no more space than a DP. You can later decide on a bigger instrument. Tuning these days is MUCH easier with PitchLab Pro on your phone. But you have to go through the Amazon App Store to get it. I tune the 8's on my harpsichord several times a week. It doesn't take that long. Mechanicals on clavichords, virginals, spinets and harpsichords are simple to look after. Strings and plectra break, damper felts get out of position, stuff mysteriously gets between keys, jacks hang up – all straightforward to fix, especially compared to replacing a broken screen on a phone or tablet. Agree that humidity control is key for any wooden instrument. My instrument is covered when not playing with a humidifier that maintains 54%.
barkingcat 4y ago
Great journey.
zwieback 4y ago
Nice story, he looks proud and a little scared in the final picture, probably some interesting times ahead. My uncle had a Bechstein concert grand. When he passed away the family expected it would fetch a nice sum but were told that it was cracked and worth just enough to pay for disposal fee. Sad!
bombolo 4y ago
> my parents displayed a bunch of trinkets, including a 19th-century clock made entirely out of metal which vibrated I bet it was the mother…
geff82 4y ago
Oh dear, that story, except the abuse, could be me. I bought a Bechstein upright last year, an R124 with S/N 215798. The R (for Residence) and A models differ a bit. R is more refined, and the differences between individual pianos are much less than in the A series. You can buy an R blind, but should never do so with an A. That said, just like the OP, I had great As at the Bechstein center. Buying this piano was a deep experience. It‘s a nerdy thing, too. Because you have to deep dive into why some pianos cost 4000 and others cost 40000. And it was deep in an emotional way. Deciding to sink the cost of a car in something… so emotional… not necessary to survive… is an act of love. Bechstein itself is to be loved, too. While their pianos are super premium just as those from Steinway, they also produce the Hoffmann-brand on their own, which is much more affordable. In contrast, Steinway more or less sells rebranded pianos from Asia as their lower brands. For those not into pianos: Steinway and Bechstein are premium manufacturers from Germany, like BMW and Mercedes. (Fazioli would be the Rolls Royce then).
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  Steinway also makes pianos in the USA, with a slightly different design than their Hamburg-built ones. I personally find them to be over-priced (since they have a stage monopoly), and lacking the quality control that Bechstein or Fazioli have.
  - geff82 4y ago
    You are of course 100% right. That said, the New York Steinway factory mainly builds for the American continent. Where I live, Steinways come from Hamburg, Germany.
  - Cupertino95014 4y ago
    I had a conversation with a prof from University of the Pacific (which is in Stockton, go figure) who was in charge of their piano program. He strongly contested the "new Steinways are shit" trope, after playing a whole lot of them and buying them for his students. There's actually a book I read about the making of one particular Steinway concert grand, which is now retired after an illustrious career on stage at Carnegie Hall and other big places. I think this is it: https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517703564/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517... (reviews are a little mixed, so read those before you buy it.)
    - reikonomusha 4y ago
      Steinway produces a ton of pianos every year. The best of their pianos go to the concert stages and recording studios. The next best go to their top clients. The next best get reserved for their artists. The next best get put into stores for "normal" people to buy. Steinway, owned by a finance firm on Wall Street, has various quality control issues. They'll ship a six-figure piano with saw dust in it, lousy regulation, etc. Technicians know how to clean these up and work with them, but they don't hold a candle to e.g. the quality control of Fazioli. Steinway is the household name, and is ubiquitous in professional settings, so they can get away with it.
AlbertCory 4y ago
I took lessons from someone who had TWO grand pianos, a Steinway and a Bechstein. They sold their house, and I became the custodian of the Bechstein on indefinite consignment. It had a cracked sound board, but she was sure that collectors would overlook that and be willing to pay at least $20K, given the illustrious name. Finally a technician came and examined it, and offered $2K, which he said was mostly charity. Eventually I was getting my floors refinished and the piano had to go, and her daughter took it. The only pianos that definitely fetch a lot are Steinway grands, and maybe a few smaller brands like Bösendorfer. Full uprights? Maybe a little. Spinets? Forget it.
- zwieback 4y ago
  Wow, 4 comments on this post and two are about cracked Bechstein soundboards!
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. If humidity changes drastically, the wood will crack and the piano action will suffer. This is true for any brand of piano. You can either install a humidity control system (known as "Dampp-Chaser systems") onto the piano itself, or invest in whole-home humidity control. The latter is always preferable when possible. If you don't do either of these, the piano—even the $250,000 ones—will fall apart over the course of a decade or two. Almost all used pianos held onto by people who don't play (e.g., the piano is furniture) almost always are busted.
    - mikestew 4y ago
      This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. This is true of any wood instrument, a guitar being one most familiar to folks. There are humidity control options for smaller instruments, too. All kinds of damage can result, such as sunken or collapsed tops (especially arch topped instruments that can be under a lot of string pressure, such as mandolins) or cracks as in a piano's soundboard. My solution was to move to Seattle where our house generally stays at the perfect 35-45% humidity, and all the instruments are happy.
jrussino 4y ago
For someone who knows next to nothing about pianos: If I (or perhaps my children) want to learn/play the piano today, what are the benefits of having a real piano at home vs an electronic keyboard? It seems to me that a low-end/"budget" upright or baby grand piano costs around as much as a high-end electronic keyboard. What are the differences in sound and/or over-all playing experience?
- DixieDev 4y ago
  I can't really comment on the nuances of the sound, but a digital piano will allow you to plug in headphones which is - in my opinion - invaluable in a home environment.
  - knowingathing 4y ago
    Yes and no. Losing the "Oh, I heard you playing a new song" is a priceless dinner conversation that can encourage a child's burgeoning passion.
    - yakubin 4y ago
      As a former child I suspect in most cases the pleasure is all parent’s in such a conversation. I’ve never liked showing incomplete things.
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  First, to clarify, there are "keyboards" and there are "digital pianos". Keyboards typically have 60ish keys, keys that are light or thin, and sound that is low quality. Digital pianos, on the other hand, have full-sized keys that are weighted like a grand piano, have a connection for a traditional piano pedal, and usually have a good sound quality. Keyboards are not appropriate for learning most kinds of "serious" piano music. A digital piano is perfectly fine to learn on. They're pretty good quality these days. You can put headphones on and not disturb anybody. (Grand pianos are comparatively loud.) There's no question that you can reach an advanced level of playing on a good quality digital piano, like the better ones from Roland, Kawai, or Yamaha. However, you lose a lot of really fine-grained control of sound. I'm talking about really fine stuff that classical pianists appreciate. For instance, pressing the pedal on a digital won't give you any feedback from the felt rubbing on the strings. Most classically trained teachers would recommend an acoustic over this fact alone. An acoustic grand also has more opportunities to change and shape the color of the tone. A technician can make the piano warmer or brighter for example. Some teachers claim an acoustic will lead to vastly better physical technique. I haven't seen this substantiated by any actual experiment though, so it might just be a tale among teachers. With that said, an acoustic grand is not an investment. Maintaining it costs $100s per year. Keeping it in tip-top shape costs $1000 every 5 years or so, in top of the $100s paid for tuning. They require TLC to keep them in good condition. Acoustic pianos also slowly break down. The crown of the soundboard flattens, the strings lose brilliance, the felts compress, the hammers wear out, etc. But an acoustic will probably give you the greatest degree of connectedness to your music that a digital could not.
Nition 4y ago
Be aware that there are a few classic piano brands which are now that brand in name only. For instance old Richard Lipp & Sohn pianos were German-made, but recent ones were made in China by a different company just re-using the name. This isn't to say that a Chinese piano will be worse than a German one, just that they are not the same and don't sound the same.
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  Likewise Baldwin. They were an extremely popular and reputable brand pre-1990s. They arguably built the best American piano (semi-concert and concert grand; depending on who you ask). Then their brand/etc. was sold to Chinese ownership, and the quality tanked. At least as of 2022, almost all Chinese manufactured pianos are inferior (in a conventional sense) to others, especially European pianos. This is usually due to the fact they're mass produced, use cheap materials, etc. However, they are a lot less expensive.
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Interestingly, I always thought Yamahas and Kawais were too bright-sounding for me, but a lot of people prefer that sound. I know they're not Chinese.
    - reikonomusha 4y ago
      Agreed on Yamaha. I swear they design them that way so they can cut through a mix in the studio. The Kawais that I've tried have been on the warmer side.
block_dagger 4y ago
I love my cut-down B3/Leslie combo. I can take it to small clubs and fill the room with thick silky sound that competes with any electric guitar. Acoustic pianos are wonderful, but portable B3’s are the king of keyboard instruments. Nord Stage pianos are at least a great substitute.
scarecrowbob 4y ago
Dang, that hits a little close. I play enough music that I suspect there is some kind of underlying pathology. Like, I am usually in 3-4 bands, have performed on 10+ instruments on stage this year. I spent 3 hours today playing clarinet waiting for google billing support, and another hour or so on trumpet this morning. And in a bit, I will be getting on the pedal steel for an evening scale pickin session. I just started the clarinet again and it has been really weird. It was my instrument all through high school. My parents were super proud that they had been able to score a super inexpensive Bundy, which was 30 years old when I got it, and which had never really been maintained. In retrospect, I realize low B key didn't seat well, so it always squeaked going over the break. I've repadded a clarinet, and that very much feels like an easy fix to me-- I have no explanations about why it remained a problem for my middle and high-school years. There are reasons why that purchase of a cheap horn for your child might be a nice thing, if you lacked money or experience. But my parents were professional school administrators who met in music school. My dad was a high school band director for a while and my mother studied flute in the university. Having had my own children, that action has curious what analogous damage I've done to them via similar mechanisms. That's not a big harm (certainly not abuse, as was the case in the OP's story), but until about a month ago when I bought myself a clarinet I hadn't realized how much resentment I was carrying from that time. Playing that horn was deeply frustrating, and with all the things I know about music at this point I cannot imagine trying to get children to learn on badly functioning instruments-- there are just so many other impediments to their learning that it takes a difficult task and might make it impossible. However, it's been quite soothing to realize that I am an adult who can take care of myself, and to simply fill needs as they come up. So I bought myself a reasonable student horn (a Buffet e12, and I did get a good deal on it, I think) and I've been playing tunes from the real books. The amount of catharsis I've gotten from simply filling something that was once an unrecognized long-term need driven by frustration has been a bit worrisome, but it's probably healthy in some sense.
dllu 4y ago
I recently also bought a rather fancy upright piano, a Sauter Master Class 130 [0]. It is a rather niche brand but the pianos are absolutely top tier and the Master Class easily rivals the Steinway K52 or Bosendorfer Grand Upright, or perhaps is even better (to my ears). [0] https://www.sauter-pianos.de/en/master-class-130 https://www.sauter-pianos.de/en/master-class-130
innocentoldguy 4y ago
I love the author's description of piano players never getting to play on their own instruments and having to settle for what is provided to them. How true! I used to play piano/keyboards in an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer cover band, but after so many stuck keys and out-of-tune pianos, I ditched keyboards for a six-string bass and now play in a band that does mostly Rush and Dream Theater covers. I was shocked by how much my band experience improved when playing on my own well-cared-for instrument vs. whatever dusty beast existed in the corner of the venue.
kitsune_ 4y ago
Great read, maybe one day I'll have the room for one as well. I play on a keyboard at the moment. Next to Bechstein and the usual suspects, Steingraeber is of interest to me.
grammers 4y ago
Nice, thanks for sharing. I only have an electric piano; its better for the kids to learn as you can adjust the level of noise. But in the long run, oh, the dreams!
RickJWagner 4y ago
I'm glad to see a piano geek keeping the spirit alive. I used to noodle around on the piano, and still have an old Clavinova. But I've been concerned, seeing all the free pianos on Facebook Marketplace. I thought piano playing was on the decline, maybe terminally so.

115 points by jbd 4y ago

For a beginner, consider a clavichord. Price is reasonable and the volume won't bother others in the house. It takes up no more space than a DP. You can later decide on a bigger instrument. Tuning these days is MUCH easier with PitchLab Pro on your phone. But you have to go through the Amazon App Store to get it. I tune the 8's on my harpsichord several times a week. It doesn't take that long. Mechanicals on clavichords, virginals, spinets and harpsichords are simple to look after. Strings and plectra break, damper felts get out of position, stuff mysteriously gets between keys, jacks hang up – all straightforward to fix, especially compared to replacing a broken screen on a phone or tablet. Agree that humidity control is key for any wooden instrument. My instrument is covered when not playing with a humidifier that maintains 54%.

barkingcat 4y ago

Great journey.

zwieback 4y ago

Nice story, he looks proud and a little scared in the final picture, probably some interesting times ahead. My uncle had a Bechstein concert grand. When he passed away the family expected it would fetch a nice sum but were told that it was cracked and worth just enough to pay for disposal fee. Sad!

bombolo 4y ago

> my parents displayed a bunch of trinkets, including a 19th-century clock made entirely out of metal which vibrated I bet it was the mother…

geff82 4y ago

Oh dear, that story, except the abuse, could be me. I bought a Bechstein upright last year, an R124 with S/N 215798. The R (for Residence) and A models differ a bit. R is more refined, and the differences between individual pianos are much less than in the A series. You can buy an R blind, but should never do so with an A. That said, just like the OP, I had great As at the Bechstein center. Buying this piano was a deep experience. It‘s a nerdy thing, too. Because you have to deep dive into why some pianos cost 4000 and others cost 40000. And it was deep in an emotional way. Deciding to sink the cost of a car in something… so emotional… not necessary to survive… is an act of love. Bechstein itself is to be loved, too. While their pianos are super premium just as those from Steinway, they also produce the Hoffmann-brand on their own, which is much more affordable. In contrast, Steinway more or less sells rebranded pianos from Asia as their lower brands. For those not into pianos: Steinway and Bechstein are premium manufacturers from Germany, like BMW and Mercedes. (Fazioli would be the Rolls Royce then).

reikonomusha 4y ago
Steinway also makes pianos in the USA, with a slightly different design than their Hamburg-built ones. I personally find them to be over-priced (since they have a stage monopoly), and lacking the quality control that Bechstein or Fazioli have.
- geff82 4y ago
  You are of course 100% right. That said, the New York Steinway factory mainly builds for the American continent. Where I live, Steinways come from Hamburg, Germany.
- Cupertino95014 4y ago
  I had a conversation with a prof from University of the Pacific (which is in Stockton, go figure) who was in charge of their piano program. He strongly contested the "new Steinways are shit" trope, after playing a whole lot of them and buying them for his students. There's actually a book I read about the making of one particular Steinway concert grand, which is now retired after an illustrious career on stage at Carnegie Hall and other big places. I think this is it: https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517703564/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/88-Keys-Making-Steinway-Piano/dp/0517... (reviews are a little mixed, so read those before you buy it.)
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    Steinway produces a ton of pianos every year. The best of their pianos go to the concert stages and recording studios. The next best go to their top clients. The next best get reserved for their artists. The next best get put into stores for "normal" people to buy. Steinway, owned by a finance firm on Wall Street, has various quality control issues. They'll ship a six-figure piano with saw dust in it, lousy regulation, etc. Technicians know how to clean these up and work with them, but they don't hold a candle to e.g. the quality control of Fazioli. Steinway is the household name, and is ubiquitous in professional settings, so they can get away with it.

AlbertCory 4y ago

I took lessons from someone who had TWO grand pianos, a Steinway and a Bechstein. They sold their house, and I became the custodian of the Bechstein on indefinite consignment. It had a cracked sound board, but she was sure that collectors would overlook that and be willing to pay at least $20K, given the illustrious name. Finally a technician came and examined it, and offered $2K, which he said was mostly charity. Eventually I was getting my floors refinished and the piano had to go, and her daughter took it. The only pianos that definitely fetch a lot are Steinway grands, and maybe a few smaller brands like Bösendorfer. Full uprights? Maybe a little. Spinets? Forget it.

zwieback 4y ago
Wow, 4 comments on this post and two are about cracked Bechstein soundboards!
- reikonomusha 4y ago
  This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. If humidity changes drastically, the wood will crack and the piano action will suffer. This is true for any brand of piano. You can either install a humidity control system (known as "Dampp-Chaser systems") onto the piano itself, or invest in whole-home humidity control. The latter is always preferable when possible. If you don't do either of these, the piano—even the $250,000 ones—will fall apart over the course of a decade or two. Almost all used pianos held onto by people who don't play (e.g., the piano is furniture) almost always are busted.
  - mikestew 4y ago
    This is rarely a defect of the piano as built, and more that people don't realize that pianos NEED an environment with a stable humidity of about 45% year-round. This is true of any wood instrument, a guitar being one most familiar to folks. There are humidity control options for smaller instruments, too. All kinds of damage can result, such as sunken or collapsed tops (especially arch topped instruments that can be under a lot of string pressure, such as mandolins) or cracks as in a piano's soundboard. My solution was to move to Seattle where our house generally stays at the perfect 35-45% humidity, and all the instruments are happy.

jrussino 4y ago

For someone who knows next to nothing about pianos: If I (or perhaps my children) want to learn/play the piano today, what are the benefits of having a real piano at home vs an electronic keyboard? It seems to me that a low-end/"budget" upright or baby grand piano costs around as much as a high-end electronic keyboard. What are the differences in sound and/or over-all playing experience?

DixieDev 4y ago
I can't really comment on the nuances of the sound, but a digital piano will allow you to plug in headphones which is - in my opinion - invaluable in a home environment.
- knowingathing 4y ago
  Yes and no. Losing the "Oh, I heard you playing a new song" is a priceless dinner conversation that can encourage a child's burgeoning passion.
  - yakubin 4y ago
    As a former child I suspect in most cases the pleasure is all parent’s in such a conversation. I’ve never liked showing incomplete things.
reikonomusha 4y ago
First, to clarify, there are "keyboards" and there are "digital pianos". Keyboards typically have 60ish keys, keys that are light or thin, and sound that is low quality. Digital pianos, on the other hand, have full-sized keys that are weighted like a grand piano, have a connection for a traditional piano pedal, and usually have a good sound quality. Keyboards are not appropriate for learning most kinds of "serious" piano music. A digital piano is perfectly fine to learn on. They're pretty good quality these days. You can put headphones on and not disturb anybody. (Grand pianos are comparatively loud.) There's no question that you can reach an advanced level of playing on a good quality digital piano, like the better ones from Roland, Kawai, or Yamaha. However, you lose a lot of really fine-grained control of sound. I'm talking about really fine stuff that classical pianists appreciate. For instance, pressing the pedal on a digital won't give you any feedback from the felt rubbing on the strings. Most classically trained teachers would recommend an acoustic over this fact alone. An acoustic grand also has more opportunities to change and shape the color of the tone. A technician can make the piano warmer or brighter for example. Some teachers claim an acoustic will lead to vastly better physical technique. I haven't seen this substantiated by any actual experiment though, so it might just be a tale among teachers. With that said, an acoustic grand is not an investment. Maintaining it costs $100s per year. Keeping it in tip-top shape costs $1000 every 5 years or so, in top of the $100s paid for tuning. They require TLC to keep them in good condition. Acoustic pianos also slowly break down. The crown of the soundboard flattens, the strings lose brilliance, the felts compress, the hammers wear out, etc. But an acoustic will probably give you the greatest degree of connectedness to your music that a digital could not.

Nition 4y ago

Be aware that there are a few classic piano brands which are now that brand in name only. For instance old Richard Lipp & Sohn pianos were German-made, but recent ones were made in China by a different company just re-using the name. This isn't to say that a Chinese piano will be worse than a German one, just that they are not the same and don't sound the same.

reikonomusha 4y ago
Likewise Baldwin. They were an extremely popular and reputable brand pre-1990s. They arguably built the best American piano (semi-concert and concert grand; depending on who you ask). Then their brand/etc. was sold to Chinese ownership, and the quality tanked. At least as of 2022, almost all Chinese manufactured pianos are inferior (in a conventional sense) to others, especially European pianos. This is usually due to the fact they're mass produced, use cheap materials, etc. However, they are a lot less expensive.
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Interestingly, I always thought Yamahas and Kawais were too bright-sounding for me, but a lot of people prefer that sound. I know they're not Chinese.
  - reikonomusha 4y ago
    Agreed on Yamaha. I swear they design them that way so they can cut through a mix in the studio. The Kawais that I've tried have been on the warmer side.

block_dagger 4y ago

I love my cut-down B3/Leslie combo. I can take it to small clubs and fill the room with thick silky sound that competes with any electric guitar. Acoustic pianos are wonderful, but portable B3’s are the king of keyboard instruments. Nord Stage pianos are at least a great substitute.

scarecrowbob 4y ago

Dang, that hits a little close. I play enough music that I suspect there is some kind of underlying pathology. Like, I am usually in 3-4 bands, have performed on 10+ instruments on stage this year. I spent 3 hours today playing clarinet waiting for google billing support, and another hour or so on trumpet this morning. And in a bit, I will be getting on the pedal steel for an evening scale pickin session. I just started the clarinet again and it has been really weird. It was my instrument all through high school. My parents were super proud that they had been able to score a super inexpensive Bundy, which was 30 years old when I got it, and which had never really been maintained. In retrospect, I realize low B key didn't seat well, so it always squeaked going over the break. I've repadded a clarinet, and that very much feels like an easy fix to me-- I have no explanations about why it remained a problem for my middle and high-school years. There are reasons why that purchase of a cheap horn for your child might be a nice thing, if you lacked money or experience. But my parents were professional school administrators who met in music school. My dad was a high school band director for a while and my mother studied flute in the university. Having had my own children, that action has curious what analogous damage I've done to them via similar mechanisms. That's not a big harm (certainly not abuse, as was the case in the OP's story), but until about a month ago when I bought myself a clarinet I hadn't realized how much resentment I was carrying from that time. Playing that horn was deeply frustrating, and with all the things I know about music at this point I cannot imagine trying to get children to learn on badly functioning instruments-- there are just so many other impediments to their learning that it takes a difficult task and might make it impossible. However, it's been quite soothing to realize that I am an adult who can take care of myself, and to simply fill needs as they come up. So I bought myself a reasonable student horn (a Buffet e12, and I did get a good deal on it, I think) and I've been playing tunes from the real books. The amount of catharsis I've gotten from simply filling something that was once an unrecognized long-term need driven by frustration has been a bit worrisome, but it's probably healthy in some sense.

dllu 4y ago

I recently also bought a rather fancy upright piano, a Sauter Master Class 130 [0]. It is a rather niche brand but the pianos are absolutely top tier and the Master Class easily rivals the Steinway K52 or Bosendorfer Grand Upright, or perhaps is even better (to my ears). [0] https://www.sauter-pianos.de/en/master-class-130 https://www.sauter-pianos.de/en/master-class-130

innocentoldguy 4y ago

I love the author's description of piano players never getting to play on their own instruments and having to settle for what is provided to them. How true! I used to play piano/keyboards in an Emerson, Lake, and Palmer cover band, but after so many stuck keys and out-of-tune pianos, I ditched keyboards for a six-string bass and now play in a band that does mostly Rush and Dream Theater covers. I was shocked by how much my band experience improved when playing on my own well-cared-for instrument vs. whatever dusty beast existed in the corner of the venue.

kitsune_ 4y ago

Great read, maybe one day I'll have the room for one as well. I play on a keyboard at the moment. Next to Bechstein and the usual suspects, Steingraeber is of interest to me.

grammers 4y ago

Nice, thanks for sharing. I only have an electric piano; its better for the kids to learn as you can adjust the level of noise. But in the long run, oh, the dreams!

RickJWagner 4y ago

I'm glad to see a piano geek keeping the spirit alive. I used to noodle around on the piano, and still have an old Clavinova. But I've been concerned, seeing all the free pianos on Facebook Marketplace. I thought piano playing was on the decline, maybe terminally so.