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Nationalism, any forms of it are evil. There is no "benign nationalism" that is just people being proud for their country or whatever. It all leads to sorrow an
by wellthisisgreat 4y ago
Nationalism, any forms of it are evil. There is no "benign nationalism" that is just people being proud for their country or whatever. It all leads to sorrow and, ultimately, destruction. Paraphrasing Voltaire, we should squash it. It is not beneficial and people can absolutely "reach for the stars" in all senses of it without nationalism. The only thing nationalism, in any form, moderate or extreme, is good for is for a small group of people (government, etc.) controlling a larger group of people (country's population) by irrational means.
Unfortunately, we won't see anti-nationalism coming to the same level as atheism even in our lifetimes. When I express this kind of view even the more liberal people in my circle say this is too extreme.
I am not advocating for any kind of anarchism, or saying government is bad. Nationalism is.
- Ekaros 4y agoWouldn't that mean that it doesn't matter which nation is controlling piece of land you live on? So no point really fighting against invasions.
- pphysch 4y ago> Unfortunately, we won't see anti-nationalism coming to the same level as atheism even in our lifetimes. Neoliberalism is clearly anti-nationalism, and it's been the dominant ideology for at least 3 decades. Neoliberalism seeks to eradicate borders, weaken states, and empower transnational corporations to privatize and exploit the resources of once-sovereign countries. There's been a "war on nations" since WW2 and the rise of the superpowers, and only in the last decade has the tide started to turn. A key fact is that Reagan was not a nationalist, he was an anti-nationalist that used purely performative, aesthetic nationalism to disguise neoliberal policies.
- miguelazo 4y agoYes, neoliberalism's failed economic model has set anti-nationalism back at least half a century. It threatens people's livelihoods by directly inhibiting the state's ability to improve the majority of their citizens' lives. Until the economic model is shifted, nationalism will continue to be seen as the antidote to neoliberalism, unfortunately. Neoliberalism and US hegemony are two sides of the same coin, so both of them are the biggest threat to human collaboration across borders.
- pphysch 4y agoWW2 was a war of expanding genocidal empires, including USA. I'm not sure what basis in reality this "nationalism is evil" trope comes from. It happens to villianize non-interventionist nations like Cuba while excusing the enormous crimes of transnational neoliberalism.
- wellthisisgreat 4y agoToday’s Russia? Today’s China?
- pphysch 4y agoThere is actually little to no evidence that either of those are operating with imperial ambitions over national security interests
- ARandomerDude 4y agoHypothetical Nation A allows democratic freedom of expression and respects human rights. Hypothetical Nation B has a tyrannical government that censors and imprisons anyone who questions it and constantly violates the rights of its people. Nation A and Nation B go to war. Do you care who wins? If you don't care, there's something wrong with you. If you do care, people will accuse of being a nationalist. At the end of the day we need to distinguish between racism and nationalism. Some nations are simply better places to live than others.
- hulitu 4y ago> Hypothetical Nation A allows democratic freedom of expression and respects human rights. Hypothetical Nation B has a tyrannical government that censors and imprisons anyone who questions it and constantly violates the rights of its people. Both countries are, as you said, Hypothetical. > Some nations are simply better places to live than others Depends on the definition of "better".
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- edm0nd 4y agoI think nationalism is just fine. Its okay to love your country and fellow citizens. It's when it turns to extremism that it gets ugly and bad.
- Steltek 4y agoI typically define that as "patriotism". In other words, patriotism is loving your country and wanting to make it better. Nationalism is loving your country and thinking it's better than all the others.
- wellthisisgreat 4y agoThe problem with “love your country and fellow citizens” is that even the most benign form of it becomes “my country and fellow citizens are better than everybody else”. That’s a great sentiment to have about your family maybe but not about an abstract concept, as it becomes as evil as religion and any similar instance.
- vasco 4y agoI have the same feeling. Most people are quick to be anti nationalist shenanigans but then are quicker to defend things like "keep jobs for <insert nationality>" type rhetoric as if the people who are taking those jobs aren't humans of equal worth. I wish we'd just get done with it but I have the same sadness that it's going to take a few more hundred years at least.