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Or you could sue the startups? Also have maternity leave for mothers and fathers like in other countries?

by rat87 15y ago

mbell 15y ago
While I'd love to look at the world with rosy colored glasses I think this is simply unrealistic. While the parent post wasn't worded all that well (sorry). Its just a fact that it isn't realistic to expect a startup or even an early stage company to go without a critical member for several months, regardless of the cause of the absence. Male, Female, Trans-gender, pregnancy, bar fight, rehab, base jumping, whatever. The cause doesn't really matter, the effect is extremely destructive to the company and I feel it's reasonable to expect those in critical positions to protect themselves against such absences. Just to be clear, not singling out women here, there are many things everyone can do to avoid issues that could result in such an absence.
- Fliko 15y ago
  I find it ironic that you would say this about a type of business that is usually praised for it's ability to be flexible with work hours, granted that the employees finish what they are expected to finish. This obviously varies with position to position, but flexibility shouldn't be thrown out of a window because it might be an inconvenience. It's important to treat your employees well!
  - mbell 15y ago
    There is a large difference between flexible work and under going a life changing event during the development of the business. Given a situation where you were picking between two individuals for a co-founder or other critical role, equally qualified, one telling you they are free and clear, no outstanding obligations for the foreseeable future and the other saying "well, there is a good chance I'll be heavily engaged in an outside issue for a couple months next summer", which would you choose? Disregard all gender / cause for the issue.
    - einhverfr 15y ago
      Also I have met men who have been willing to shift paternity time off for a few weeks to accommodate business schedules. Obviously that's not possible for women.
    - Fliko 15y ago
      I totally agree, picking someone as a cofounder that will be taking leave for their newborn baby is insane, but I had 'lower' positions in mind when I was talking about flexibility.
- lusr 15y ago
  1. Risk is a normal part of doing business, especially more so for a startup, and it is logical for a business owner to want to reduce risk. As you say, there are many sources of risks to employees that have a direct effect on the business. 2. The division in this discussion seems to stem around how best to manage the risk of project impact caused by losing a critical team member owing to pregnancy event. 3. Extreme positions: a. The risk to the business is little different from any other unplanned risk that the business needs to deal with anyway, and to assume otherwise is to be sexist; i.e. there may be women out there for whom pregnancy does not impact their work any more than an illness, and assuming that all women are equally likely to fall pregnant and handle pregnancy in the same way is discriminatory. b. An ethical/strategic position whereby the additional risk is accepted because the benefits gained in terms of equity makes the risk acceptable. c. Pregnancy is a flat-out optional potential risk to the business and since a business owner wants to reduce risk then it's logical to avoid employing women. 4. IMO this is all a matter of opinion and has everything to do with one's appetite for risk, one's risk exposure (capital & risk management) and one's principles. The same person given two different startups could come to different conclusions depending on these variables, for instance. Given this, I really don't see the point of this discussion as it is pretty much subjective and depends entirely on the startup in question and the owners invested therein.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

Or you could sue the startups? Also have maternity leave for mothers and fathers like in other countries?

by rat87 15y ago

Or you could sue the startups? Also have maternity leave for mothers and fathers like in other countries?

mbell 15y ago

While I'd love to look at the world with rosy colored glasses I think this is simply unrealistic. While the parent post wasn't worded all that well (sorry). Its just a fact that it isn't realistic to expect a startup or even an early stage company to go without a critical member for several months, regardless of the cause of the absence. Male, Female, Trans-gender, pregnancy, bar fight, rehab, base jumping, whatever. The cause doesn't really matter, the effect is extremely destructive to the company and I feel it's reasonable to expect those in critical positions to protect themselves against such absences. Just to be clear, not singling out women here, there are many things everyone can do to avoid issues that could result in such an absence.

Fliko 15y ago
I find it ironic that you would say this about a type of business that is usually praised for it's ability to be flexible with work hours, granted that the employees finish what they are expected to finish. This obviously varies with position to position, but flexibility shouldn't be thrown out of a window because it might be an inconvenience. It's important to treat your employees well!
- mbell 15y ago
  There is a large difference between flexible work and under going a life changing event during the development of the business. Given a situation where you were picking between two individuals for a co-founder or other critical role, equally qualified, one telling you they are free and clear, no outstanding obligations for the foreseeable future and the other saying "well, there is a good chance I'll be heavily engaged in an outside issue for a couple months next summer", which would you choose? Disregard all gender / cause for the issue.
  - einhverfr 15y ago
    Also I have met men who have been willing to shift paternity time off for a few weeks to accommodate business schedules. Obviously that's not possible for women.
  - Fliko 15y ago
    I totally agree, picking someone as a cofounder that will be taking leave for their newborn baby is insane, but I had 'lower' positions in mind when I was talking about flexibility.
lusr 15y ago
1. Risk is a normal part of doing business, especially more so for a startup, and it is logical for a business owner to want to reduce risk. As you say, there are many sources of risks to employees that have a direct effect on the business. 2. The division in this discussion seems to stem around how best to manage the risk of project impact caused by losing a critical team member owing to pregnancy event. 3. Extreme positions: a. The risk to the business is little different from any other unplanned risk that the business needs to deal with anyway, and to assume otherwise is to be sexist; i.e. there may be women out there for whom pregnancy does not impact their work any more than an illness, and assuming that all women are equally likely to fall pregnant and handle pregnancy in the same way is discriminatory. b. An ethical/strategic position whereby the additional risk is accepted because the benefits gained in terms of equity makes the risk acceptable. c. Pregnancy is a flat-out optional potential risk to the business and since a business owner wants to reduce risk then it's logical to avoid employing women. 4. IMO this is all a matter of opinion and has everything to do with one's appetite for risk, one's risk exposure (capital & risk management) and one's principles. The same person given two different startups could come to different conclusions depending on these variables, for instance. Given this, I really don't see the point of this discussion as it is pretty much subjective and depends entirely on the startup in question and the owners invested therein.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]