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$1,000,000 per lb for R&D is steep, but at this stage in the game makes sense. I wonder what the unit price for a break-even 1lb saving would be. Is it worth s
by TOMDM 4y ago
$1,000,000 per lb for R&D is steep, but at this stage in the game makes sense.
I wonder what the unit price for a break-even 1lb saving would be. Is it worth spending $20,000 to shave off a pound with expensive materials?
- Cerium 4y agoAbout $2600 per pound. Based on this forum thread [1] the marginal cost per pound to fuel efficienciy is about "0.0155 gallons per pound per 1,000 statute miles". Over a 737's life it may fly about 50 million miles [2]. Combining facts one and two results in a fuel consumption per marginal pound of 775 gallons. Current jet fuel prices are about $3.40 per gal [3]. [1] https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/712294-anyone-know-average-cost-per-pound-fly-1-000-miles-3-gallon-fuel.html https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/712294-anyone-kno... [2] https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2012/11/19/ask-the-captain-how-far-does-a-jet-fly-during-its-lifetime/1712269/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/columnist/cox/2012/11/... [3] https://www.iata.org/en/publications/economics/fuel-monitor/ https://www.iata.org/en/publications/economics/fuel-monitor/
- TOMDM 4y agoWow, thanks for the effort put into answering a passing curiosity! Of course any change to the aircraft has many other downstream implications (ability to source parts for repairs, lifetime of the part, maintenance requirements), but it's cool to think that for an "all else the same" replacement that the bar is still so high. With the falling costs of advanced materials I do wonder if next gen aircraft will be substantially different.
- m_mueller 4y agoIf that’s the case, why is e.g. 10% of a 787 still using steel rather than titanium, which can be had at 11$ per kg?
- elil17 4y agoThe challenge is with design, certification, and manufacturing (forming and joining), not with affording the material. Plus, high strength steels can bear more stress than titanium, although they weigh more. This may be needed for certain space-constrained components.
- m_mueller 4y agoMakes sense, thanks.
- snovv_crash 4y agoThat doesn't make sense. So if I buy a top spec model and make it 400lbs lighter I can double the price?
- TOMDM 4y agoIf you could take a top spec model, cut the weight by 400lbs without effecting the crafts capability, you could certainly sell it at a premium yeah, it would be some difference between the current price and the fuel cost savings shedding 400lbs casuses over the lifetime of the aircraft. Cerium estimated $2,600 per lb over the lifetime of the craft so yeah, that's a ~$1,040,000 in value there.
- elil17 4y agoA 1 lb saving saves $2,600 in fuel costs over the life of the craft. However, an airline's break even point is a portion of that (perhaps $1,000) because the fuel costs are spread out over the life of the craft and there is an opportunity cost to spending money on the more efficient plane. Of that $1,000, the aircraft maker will only capture a portion of the value - the airline expects to do better than break even. The airplane manufacturer may be able to charge $500 more for the aircraft. They might hope to make 2,000 aircraft for something big like a 787 (although that number varies a lot depending on the model). That's 2,000 units times $500 = $1 million.
- snovv_crash 4y agoAha, across all units, that makes more sense. I thought it was per unit and it off by a few orders of magnitude.
- elil17 4y agoWell that's the break even price. They want to have most 1lb improvements cost them less than a million dollars.