5 ms·

> False. MAM is explicitly designed for use with multiple devices. OMEMO is fully compatible with MAM and multiple devices too. please expand on how OMEMO encr

> False. MAM is explicitly designed for use with multiple devices. OMEMO is fully compatible with MAM and multiple devices too. please expand on how OMEMO encrypted messages land readable on other devices of you through MAM > If the group goes down permanently = certain single server in the group > My experience is that this is good enough for most people In mine it isn't when virtually anyone is (supposed to be) able to run a server, which he might abandon due to lost interest or might fail due to unprofessional maintenance. > This is also false, as you can see from even a cursory reading of the spec. you take that point

Semaphor 4y ago
> please expand on how OMEMO encrypted messages land readable on other devices of you through MAM Not GP, and I don’t know how it works technically, but I can confirm that OMEMO encrypted messages sync to other devices when I come back online there.
MattJ100 4y ago
> certain single server in the group To be clear, only the server that the group is hosted on. Servers are not "in groups", so your statement doesn't make sense. > please expand on how OMEMO encrypted messages land readable on other devices of you through MAM MAM is a feature of XMPP that provides a way to query all incoming and outgoing messages, including those received while the client was offline. OMEMO is a many-to-many end-to-end encryption protocol. Whether a message is delivered while a client is connected, or later via synchronization after a period of disconnection, doesn't have any effect on the encryption or ability of a client to decrypt the message. These things can all be verified by reading the specs or simply using any modern XMPP client and observing it work for yourself.
- kitkat_new 4y ago
  > To be clear, only the server that the group is hosted on. Fullstop > Whether a message is delivered while a client is connected, or later via synchronization after a period of disconnection, doesn't have any effect on the encryption or ability of a client to decrypt the message. what about when a client creates a fresh connection and I want to read my messages on it?
  - nicoco 4y ago
    What you want is a bit contradictory with wanting e2ee.
    - kitkat_new 4y ago
      how so?
      - nicoco 4y ago
        It seems to me that if any new device/app that "logs to your IM account" gets all message history, you're kind of defeating the point of having E2EE in the first place. If I sent encrypted messages to a trusted device of yours, I suppose I don't really want any new device of yours to get these messages. I agree that this does not create the best "user experience", but if that is what you are looking for, maybe you didn't want E2EE in the first place? It could be possible to have a XEP that covers "history syncing between my devices", but what's the point of E2EE if encrypted information can just be transferred and duplicated like this? It's also possible to disable OMEMO if having history sync'ed on any new device is what's most important to you. It's not like messages are sent as plain unencrypted text (unlike email...), TLS is used. If you and the other end are on servers you trust (or own), there is little reason to use OMEMO anyway. Except that nice lock icon that supposedly means "safe" without really defining "safe *from what*".
        kitkat_new 4y ago
        > you're kind of defeating the point of having E2EE in the first place. why? > If I sent encrypted messages to a trusted device of yours, I suppose I don't really want any new device of yours to get these messages. I actually do. > maybe you didn't want E2EE in the first place I am sure I do want E2EE. > but what's the point of E2EE if encrypted information can just be transferred and duplicated like this? being able to read my messages on all my devices? > If you and the other end are on servers you trust (or own), I have to also trust the servers of all my contacts. Where did I imply that? > Except that nice lock icon that supposedly means "safe" without really defining "safe from what". safe from anyone being able to read my messages except me and my communication partners

Semaphor 4y ago

> please expand on how OMEMO encrypted messages land readable on other devices of you through MAM Not GP, and I don’t know how it works technically, but I can confirm that OMEMO encrypted messages sync to other devices when I come back online there.

MattJ100 4y ago

> certain single server in the group To be clear, only the server that the group is hosted on. Servers are not "in groups", so your statement doesn't make sense. > please expand on how OMEMO encrypted messages land readable on other devices of you through MAM MAM is a feature of XMPP that provides a way to query all incoming and outgoing messages, including those received while the client was offline. OMEMO is a many-to-many end-to-end encryption protocol. Whether a message is delivered while a client is connected, or later via synchronization after a period of disconnection, doesn't have any effect on the encryption or ability of a client to decrypt the message. These things can all be verified by reading the specs or simply using any modern XMPP client and observing it work for yourself.

kitkat_new 4y ago
> To be clear, only the server that the group is hosted on. Fullstop > Whether a message is delivered while a client is connected, or later via synchronization after a period of disconnection, doesn't have any effect on the encryption or ability of a client to decrypt the message. what about when a client creates a fresh connection and I want to read my messages on it?
- nicoco 4y ago
  What you want is a bit contradictory with wanting e2ee.
  - kitkat_new 4y ago
    how so?
    - nicoco 4y ago
      It seems to me that if any new device/app that "logs to your IM account" gets all message history, you're kind of defeating the point of having E2EE in the first place. If I sent encrypted messages to a trusted device of yours, I suppose I don't really want any new device of yours to get these messages. I agree that this does not create the best "user experience", but if that is what you are looking for, maybe you didn't want E2EE in the first place? It could be possible to have a XEP that covers "history syncing between my devices", but what's the point of E2EE if encrypted information can just be transferred and duplicated like this? It's also possible to disable OMEMO if having history sync'ed on any new device is what's most important to you. It's not like messages are sent as plain unencrypted text (unlike email...), TLS is used. If you and the other end are on servers you trust (or own), there is little reason to use OMEMO anyway. Except that nice lock icon that supposedly means "safe" without really defining "safe *from what*".
      - kitkat_new 4y ago
        > you're kind of defeating the point of having E2EE in the first place. why? > If I sent encrypted messages to a trusted device of yours, I suppose I don't really want any new device of yours to get these messages. I actually do. > maybe you didn't want E2EE in the first place I am sure I do want E2EE. > but what's the point of E2EE if encrypted information can just be transferred and duplicated like this? being able to read my messages on all my devices? > If you and the other end are on servers you trust (or own), I have to also trust the servers of all my contacts. Where did I imply that? > Except that nice lock icon that supposedly means "safe" without really defining "safe from what". safe from anyone being able to read my messages except me and my communication partners