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Thanks for creating and releasing this. I started getting into walking after the pandemic. There is a nice suburban trail near my house and I have walked severa

Thanks for creating and releasing this. I started getting into walking after the pandemic. There is a nice suburban trail near my house and I have walked several hundred miles on it. This app is inspiring me to take my newfound love of nature and trails for a day trip or even a multi-day trip. I am grateful for your advice to do my homework including learning to use and carry a compass and a map. To wit: > You should always research your trip ahead of time, plan training hikes, become familiar with the terrain, carry a physical compass and map and know how to use them. Have you any additional advice for someone who has not really done a multi-day trip before? I have never heard of AllTrails; I will check it out.

ryanisnan 4y ago
Just a word of warning, if you don't know how to use a map and a compass, and don't practice with it semi-regularly, do not be fooled into thinking these will save you simply because you have them.
- ghaff 4y ago
  I don’t fully disagree. You certainly don’t want to suddenly have to use unfamiliar tools for the first time when your phone dies or you discover you forgot to download a digital map. On the other hand knowing the rough direction you’re going and seeing where trails go don’t require being an orienteering whiz.
  - ryanisnan 4y ago
    I agree with both of your points. The gaps in knowledge become a real problem if the user has lost their sense of location, which happens surprisingly easily. If your egress route is straight-forward (e.g. head west, no hazards on route), it's easier to recover. But there are lots of skills that need practice or instruction - triangulation, aiming-off, taking a bearing, back-bearing, declination setting, heck even reading your altitude. Add panic because you're lost and losing daylight, and you're in a pickle.
    - ghaff 4y ago
      Yeah. My assumption was that you’d probably be hiking on trails. Bushwhacking or off trail travel generally require more skills. Though if you’ve just gotten turned around pulling out a compass can help a lot.
      - ryanisnan 4y ago
        In the SAR world, it's very rare we search for people who are intentionally going off trail (e.g. scrambling/mountaineering/bush-whacking). It's almost exclusively folks who were hiking on trail, lost the trail, and then became disoriented. It's hard to know for certain, but my gut says some large % of those folks would not have been aided by having a map/compass.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Certainly it’s about a lot more than knowing what a map and compass is—including when to just turn back. Though I’d argue those 2 things are at least a minimal backup if electronics fail or aren’t properly setup. And I suspect a lot of people don’t carry because they figure they have a phone.
  - wnissen 4y ago
    It doesn't, you're right. But the counterpoint to that is you should be really, really sure you have correctly gotten back on track if you decide to move any significant distance. That is the number one thing wilderness rescue folks will tell you. Assuming someone knows when you're supposed to be back, it will be vastly easier to check the immediate vicinity of your planned route than to find you well off-trail in some other direction. Climbing a nearby hill for better visibility or getting on a more-traveled fire road is fine, but heading off can really slow down the search.
jameal 4y ago
I love hearing about the positive effects from difficult events like the pandemic. I'm glad this is inspiring you. I got very inspired as I was building it too. Working on it brought out some enthusiasm I haven't had in a long time--really since I first started coding for fun. There's something about integrating the two hobbies (dev & backpacking) that really invigorated me. Have you done any overnight camping before? REI has some good resources[1] including checklists for gear. I bet you can find some good YouTube channels too with camping tips too. Watch some of those to get a sense. I'd recommend starting with a single overnight. Find someone experienced to go with if you can. If not, find a trail where you stay close to the trailhead. That way you can bail if you need to. Some other tips that come to mind: - Consider the wildlife in your area and whether you need to bring bear spray and hang your food (and any fragrant items) - After each trip do a little reflection. What did you bring that you didn't need? What did you need that you didn't have? - Make sure you carry enough water. Most people need about a half liter per hour during moderate activity in moderate temperatures. If you want to rely on natural water sources, you will most likely need a water treatment device. Also consider that some lakes/streams are seasonal and not always available. Do your research! - Read up on Leave No Trace principles so that you can conserve the outdoors and make sure others can have the same enjoyment[2]. That should give you a good place to start. Feel free to reach out with any specific questions. I've been thinking about sharing more camping/hiking resources on my website. [1]: https://www.rei.com/learn/c/camping/t/skills?ir=category%3Acamping&r=c%3Bt https://www.rei.com/learn/c/camping/t/skills?ir=category%3Ac... [2]: https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/ https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/
- avg_dev 4y ago
  Nice, thanks for the tips and the thoughts!

ryanisnan 4y ago

Just a word of warning, if you don't know how to use a map and a compass, and don't practice with it semi-regularly, do not be fooled into thinking these will save you simply because you have them.

ghaff 4y ago
I don’t fully disagree. You certainly don’t want to suddenly have to use unfamiliar tools for the first time when your phone dies or you discover you forgot to download a digital map. On the other hand knowing the rough direction you’re going and seeing where trails go don’t require being an orienteering whiz.
- ryanisnan 4y ago
  I agree with both of your points. The gaps in knowledge become a real problem if the user has lost their sense of location, which happens surprisingly easily. If your egress route is straight-forward (e.g. head west, no hazards on route), it's easier to recover. But there are lots of skills that need practice or instruction - triangulation, aiming-off, taking a bearing, back-bearing, declination setting, heck even reading your altitude. Add panic because you're lost and losing daylight, and you're in a pickle.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    Yeah. My assumption was that you’d probably be hiking on trails. Bushwhacking or off trail travel generally require more skills. Though if you’ve just gotten turned around pulling out a compass can help a lot.
    - ryanisnan 4y ago
      In the SAR world, it's very rare we search for people who are intentionally going off trail (e.g. scrambling/mountaineering/bush-whacking). It's almost exclusively folks who were hiking on trail, lost the trail, and then became disoriented. It's hard to know for certain, but my gut says some large % of those folks would not have been aided by having a map/compass.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Certainly it’s about a lot more than knowing what a map and compass is—including when to just turn back. Though I’d argue those 2 things are at least a minimal backup if electronics fail or aren’t properly setup. And I suspect a lot of people don’t carry because they figure they have a phone.
- wnissen 4y ago
  It doesn't, you're right. But the counterpoint to that is you should be really, really sure you have correctly gotten back on track if you decide to move any significant distance. That is the number one thing wilderness rescue folks will tell you. Assuming someone knows when you're supposed to be back, it will be vastly easier to check the immediate vicinity of your planned route than to find you well off-trail in some other direction. Climbing a nearby hill for better visibility or getting on a more-traveled fire road is fine, but heading off can really slow down the search.

jameal 4y ago

I love hearing about the positive effects from difficult events like the pandemic. I'm glad this is inspiring you. I got very inspired as I was building it too. Working on it brought out some enthusiasm I haven't had in a long time--really since I first started coding for fun. There's something about integrating the two hobbies (dev & backpacking) that really invigorated me. Have you done any overnight camping before? REI has some good resources[1] including checklists for gear. I bet you can find some good YouTube channels too with camping tips too. Watch some of those to get a sense. I'd recommend starting with a single overnight. Find someone experienced to go with if you can. If not, find a trail where you stay close to the trailhead. That way you can bail if you need to. Some other tips that come to mind: - Consider the wildlife in your area and whether you need to bring bear spray and hang your food (and any fragrant items) - After each trip do a little reflection. What did you bring that you didn't need? What did you need that you didn't have? - Make sure you carry enough water. Most people need about a half liter per hour during moderate activity in moderate temperatures. If you want to rely on natural water sources, you will most likely need a water treatment device. Also consider that some lakes/streams are seasonal and not always available. Do your research! - Read up on Leave No Trace principles so that you can conserve the outdoors and make sure others can have the same enjoyment[2]. That should give you a good place to start. Feel free to reach out with any specific questions. I've been thinking about sharing more camping/hiking resources on my website. [1]: https://www.rei.com/learn/c/camping/t/skills?ir=category%3Acamping&r=c%3Bt https://www.rei.com/learn/c/camping/t/skills?ir=category%3Ac... [2]: https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/ https://lnt.org/why/7-principles/

avg_dev 4y ago
Nice, thanks for the tips and the thoughts!