6 ms·

> It is completely insane and gives lots of fuel to the systemd haters. Sorry, what exactly is the issue with a bunch of Linux maintainers working for Microsof

by atonse 4y ago

> It is completely insane and gives lots of fuel to the systemd haters. Sorry, what exactly is the issue with a bunch of Linux maintainers working for Microsoft? Is there still some sort of collective adjustment issue with Microsoft being a major backer of Linux now? If the maintainers themselves (people who have dedicated their lives to progressing Linux) are ok with it, why does anyone else have an issue? And what kind of fuel would it add? That systemd has corporate backers?

b112 4y ago
And what kind of fuel would it add? That systemd has corporate backers? Systemd was 100% created by redhat, so no, corporate backers aren't the problem. The real problem is that Microsoft has historically tried to destroy linux, and beyond that, has a huge history of FUD and embrace and extinguish. Many in the OSS community consider Microsoft to be pure evil. And if their historical behaviour is any indication, nothing they do with/for Linux will turn out well, or good for the community.
- PoignardAzur 4y ago
  > The real problem is that Microsoft has historically tried to destroy linux, and beyond that, has a huge history of FUD and embrace and extinguish. And now they're one of the major backers. All the work is being done in the open, so it's not like there's a nefarious hidden agenda there (an agenda that would have needed to somehow stay dormant for 10+ years). The idea that working for Microsoft is something dirty that should be shunned for open source just doesn't make practical sense.
  - b112 4y ago
    Pulseaudio was developed in the open. So was systemd, and many take issue with that. And embrace and extend can exist in OSS models. Microsoft is dirty, and it is dirt they cannot wash off in a mere few years. If they behave correctly for 20 years, as long as they behaved in a literally evil fashion, then maybe they have reformed.
    - rainbow29822 4y ago
      Embrace and extend is a fundamental part of the OSS model. That's what you're supposed to do: pick some OSS, make some custom add-ons to it, then upsell it to your customers. The license encourages everyone to do this. Tons and tons of OSS companies are doing this. Microsoft isn't doing anything out of the ordinary here. Just a reminder holding grudges isn't good for your mental health.
  - effie 4y ago
    Microsoft pushes ads, surveillance software and broken updates on most Windows users. That they are buying influence in Linux and throwing some money at it does not absolve them. Working for bad behaved corporation isn't laudable unless you're literally saving lives there.
    - atonse 4y ago
      Err that seems like an unreasonable (and child-like) simplification of the world. Microsoft has done many terrible things. Most companies of that size have. But they have also done a ton of good things. It’s impossible to take a group of tens of thousands of humans and not find rampant examples of both good and terrible things. Sometimes one outweighs the other and that may sound like where you are but there is a wide gap between doing evil and saving lives, and most of us live somewhere in that gap.
      - effie 4y ago
        "It's not me doing the bad things, I just work there."
- atonse 4y ago
  I totally get it – I've watched it all unfold over the last couple of decades. But everything I see since Nadella has taken over, tells me that they aren't just paying lip service, that they have just realized nearly a decade ago that it's good business to embrace (loaded word) Linux if they have any chance for Azure to succeed, and their moves suggest that's a core part of their future.

by atonse 4y ago

b112 4y ago

And what kind of fuel would it add? That systemd has corporate backers? Systemd was 100% created by redhat, so no, corporate backers aren't the problem. The real problem is that Microsoft has historically tried to destroy linux, and beyond that, has a huge history of FUD and embrace and extinguish. Many in the OSS community consider Microsoft to be pure evil. And if their historical behaviour is any indication, nothing they do with/for Linux will turn out well, or good for the community.

PoignardAzur 4y ago
> The real problem is that Microsoft has historically tried to destroy linux, and beyond that, has a huge history of FUD and embrace and extinguish. And now they're one of the major backers. All the work is being done in the open, so it's not like there's a nefarious hidden agenda there (an agenda that would have needed to somehow stay dormant for 10+ years). The idea that working for Microsoft is something dirty that should be shunned for open source just doesn't make practical sense.
- b112 4y ago
  Pulseaudio was developed in the open. So was systemd, and many take issue with that. And embrace and extend can exist in OSS models. Microsoft is dirty, and it is dirt they cannot wash off in a mere few years. If they behave correctly for 20 years, as long as they behaved in a literally evil fashion, then maybe they have reformed.
  - rainbow29822 4y ago
    Embrace and extend is a fundamental part of the OSS model. That's what you're supposed to do: pick some OSS, make some custom add-ons to it, then upsell it to your customers. The license encourages everyone to do this. Tons and tons of OSS companies are doing this. Microsoft isn't doing anything out of the ordinary here. Just a reminder holding grudges isn't good for your mental health.
- effie 4y ago
  Microsoft pushes ads, surveillance software and broken updates on most Windows users. That they are buying influence in Linux and throwing some money at it does not absolve them. Working for bad behaved corporation isn't laudable unless you're literally saving lives there.
  - atonse 4y ago
    Err that seems like an unreasonable (and child-like) simplification of the world. Microsoft has done many terrible things. Most companies of that size have. But they have also done a ton of good things. It’s impossible to take a group of tens of thousands of humans and not find rampant examples of both good and terrible things. Sometimes one outweighs the other and that may sound like where you are but there is a wide gap between doing evil and saving lives, and most of us live somewhere in that gap.
    - effie 4y ago
      "It's not me doing the bad things, I just work there."
atonse 4y ago
I totally get it – I've watched it all unfold over the last couple of decades. But everything I see since Nadella has taken over, tells me that they aren't just paying lip service, that they have just realized nearly a decade ago that it's good business to embrace (loaded word) Linux if they have any chance for Azure to succeed, and their moves suggest that's a core part of their future.