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> "Public Square" online is a fallacy. A public square is typically thought of where someone grabs the attention of all passerby and is voicing their thoughts.

by bambax 4y ago

> "Public Square" online is a fallacy. A public square is typically thought of where someone grabs the attention of all passerby and is voicing their thoughts. Those thoughts voiced are short lived and can only be broadcast as far as the sound wave will carry them. That's very true. Maybe a better Twitter could incorporate actual geographical distance. You would have to choose where you are and could only see messages from people that are actually near you. If you move, you see different messages. Or the distance could be ideological -- or better, theoretical. Any user would have to choose a place on a "map" / a set of coordinates. A user can move freely at any time, but - messages can't move and stay where the user was when they were posted - messages can only be seen when the user is near them.

kjellsbells 4y ago
Isnt your proposal basically Reddit? Subreddits are nodes that require you to be close to them to see whats going on (via joining the sub), with a public square, /r/popular, artificially built from the top posts on those nodes. For some definition of "top".
- bambax 4y ago
  True, but the significant difference is that you can belong to any number of subreddits at the same time, and they're organized by topic. In my idea the place itself would be neutral/non-significant, and you could only be in one place at a time, like IRL.
- raunak 4y ago
  I would say it’s also a mix of nextdoor - both of which are still just as toxic. Tempted to say the problem is just the internet breeding toxicity in general. Maybe we could all do better with less internet and more nature time
  - fragmede 4y ago
    Nextdoor is very indicative of where you live. There are often time joyous earnest "here's a pretty picture of a bird" posts, and if you live somewhere nice, typically rural, there's not even the usual dreck.
    - PaulLeiby 4y ago
      > ... somewhere nice, "Typically rural"? It'd be interesting to discuss the evidence for this greater rural niceness, if known. We should be wary of rural mythology, in part because the rural lifestyle is non-representative (in the US and globally), declining, and unsustainable (does not scale, we can't all do it). To respond to my own challenge, and making no assertions of causality, there are countervailing bits of evidence, based on correlations. The correlation between Trump support and rurality is strong and statistically undeniable. Is this group inherently "nicer" in person or on the internet? A second random but disturbing example is the "significantly higher risk of femicide and non-domestic homicide victimization in rural counties compared to non-rural counties." https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5718&context=etd https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5...
- taylodl 4y ago
  Interesting. My use of Twitter has waned over the years while my use of Reddit has increased...I guess I'm voting with my time that Reddit is the better model.
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    I'm 100% positive that reddit is the better model in general -- at least with the old UI that didn't have all the dark patters to force you to stay on. I still quit it over a year ago because I noticed I was very addicted to it.
- nonameiguess 4y ago
  It's the original design of Facebook. You had to join based on real-world membership in a pre-existing network, in this case a university. You only got to interact with people from your university. There's something to be said for this. Schools have their problems. Plenty of drama, bullying, harassment, marginalization, extremism. But when it's limited to a school network, it doesn't swing national sentiment, aid and abet genocides, provide an outlet for foreign adversaries to subvert race relations in your country. But it does mean ad campaigns can't have global reach.
  - janalsncm 4y ago
    One other benefit of tying online groups to offline groups is that they are able to moderate themselves. Schools aren’t perfect but they can deal with cyber bullying if all parties are students at that school.
brandall10 4y ago
I don't know if the limit needs to be geographical. I'd think it could be segmented by interest, ala discussion forums for particular hobbies. Those are private and heavily moderated, there are 'village elders' (mods/heavily active users), people are on good behavior because of this, they always seem to have a section for more controversial/political discussions for those who want it - and they tend to be civil, surprisingly enough, because users have a rep to protect in the more generalized sections and don't want to be a bad citizen. And nothing is indexed by search engines, you have to go to the site and search. Reddit has this a bit with subreddits but it's far more loose and indexed by search engines, which I think is why it is problematic in certain ways.
awb 4y ago
Sounds like the Metaverse. Shouting is only 1 form of communication though. Newspapers and pamphlets have been around for centuries and travel farther and last longer than human generated sound waves. So your proposal kind of simulates pre-printing press days and maybe even pre-written language days.
matt-attack 4y ago
Nextdoor is literally this. It’s twitter/Reddit but for geographically isolated groups.

by bambax 4y ago

kjellsbells 4y ago

Isnt your proposal basically Reddit? Subreddits are nodes that require you to be close to them to see whats going on (via joining the sub), with a public square, /r/popular, artificially built from the top posts on those nodes. For some definition of "top".

bambax 4y ago
True, but the significant difference is that you can belong to any number of subreddits at the same time, and they're organized by topic. In my idea the place itself would be neutral/non-significant, and you could only be in one place at a time, like IRL.
raunak 4y ago
I would say it’s also a mix of nextdoor - both of which are still just as toxic. Tempted to say the problem is just the internet breeding toxicity in general. Maybe we could all do better with less internet and more nature time
- fragmede 4y ago
  Nextdoor is very indicative of where you live. There are often time joyous earnest "here's a pretty picture of a bird" posts, and if you live somewhere nice, typically rural, there's not even the usual dreck.
  - PaulLeiby 4y ago
    > ... somewhere nice, "Typically rural"? It'd be interesting to discuss the evidence for this greater rural niceness, if known. We should be wary of rural mythology, in part because the rural lifestyle is non-representative (in the US and globally), declining, and unsustainable (does not scale, we can't all do it). To respond to my own challenge, and making no assertions of causality, there are countervailing bits of evidence, based on correlations. The correlation between Trump support and rurality is strong and statistically undeniable. Is this group inherently "nicer" in person or on the internet? A second random but disturbing example is the "significantly higher risk of femicide and non-domestic homicide victimization in rural counties compared to non-rural counties." https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5718&context=etd https://digitalcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=5...
taylodl 4y ago
Interesting. My use of Twitter has waned over the years while my use of Reddit has increased...I guess I'm voting with my time that Reddit is the better model.
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  I'm 100% positive that reddit is the better model in general -- at least with the old UI that didn't have all the dark patters to force you to stay on. I still quit it over a year ago because I noticed I was very addicted to it.
nonameiguess 4y ago
It's the original design of Facebook. You had to join based on real-world membership in a pre-existing network, in this case a university. You only got to interact with people from your university. There's something to be said for this. Schools have their problems. Plenty of drama, bullying, harassment, marginalization, extremism. But when it's limited to a school network, it doesn't swing national sentiment, aid and abet genocides, provide an outlet for foreign adversaries to subvert race relations in your country. But it does mean ad campaigns can't have global reach.
- janalsncm 4y ago
  One other benefit of tying online groups to offline groups is that they are able to moderate themselves. Schools aren’t perfect but they can deal with cyber bullying if all parties are students at that school.

brandall10 4y ago

I don't know if the limit needs to be geographical. I'd think it could be segmented by interest, ala discussion forums for particular hobbies. Those are private and heavily moderated, there are 'village elders' (mods/heavily active users), people are on good behavior because of this, they always seem to have a section for more controversial/political discussions for those who want it - and they tend to be civil, surprisingly enough, because users have a rep to protect in the more generalized sections and don't want to be a bad citizen. And nothing is indexed by search engines, you have to go to the site and search. Reddit has this a bit with subreddits but it's far more loose and indexed by search engines, which I think is why it is problematic in certain ways.

awb 4y ago

Sounds like the Metaverse. Shouting is only 1 form of communication though. Newspapers and pamphlets have been around for centuries and travel farther and last longer than human generated sound waves. So your proposal kind of simulates pre-printing press days and maybe even pre-written language days.

matt-attack 4y ago

Nextdoor is literally this. It’s twitter/Reddit but for geographically isolated groups.